The mire gets deeper for Boeing

[LVSteve]

Boeing have problems right now. Production flaws with the 787 are such that at least one airline will not take aircraft built in SC.

Then there is the 737 MAX debacle that just got deeper. Apparently the FAA had their pilots in the simulator to test the fix for the angle of attack sensor issue that caused the two crashes. While testing, they discovered ANOTHER issue with the flight control system. Boeing and the FAA are being very coy about what it is, but supposedly it interfered with the pilots' ability to fix the first problem. Oops.

Boeing 737 Max: New issue could delay aircraft's return - BBC News

 

[jag312]

My son works for a company that makes aircraft parts. About 70% of their work was for Boeing. WAS. Boeing isn't buying any parts right now. There has already been some layoffs, and my son is worried. He is not worried that he will be laid off. He is worried that his company will fold.

 

[dockmurgw]

Such a disaster on so many levels. Just wait to they start flooding the roads with autonomous driving cars, we aint seen nuttin yet. I just read something recently that their going to start rolling out large numbers of them in Florida.

 

[URIT]

Such a disaster on so many levels. Just wait to they start flooding the roads with autonomous driving cars, we aint seen nuttin yet. I just read something recently that their going to start rolling out large numbers of them in Florida.

Now I'm wondering if they'll have the left turn signal blinking continuously and using the touch method to park.

 

[steveno]

there is no doubt that Boeing messed some things up real good. however one thing that I see is that the airplanes that crashed were third world airlines and crews with questionable experience. there reports of the same problems with American crews in the states and they didn't crash. they surely had a lot more flight hours and knew how to deal with the problem.

most of my flying was in the 1970's and back then the pilots had gray hair and LOT of real time in the cockpit. over the years they probably scared themselves a couple of times. back then simulators either didn't exist or were real basic. today I think they stress the simulator time too much and not enough on real hours.


you can say all you want about simulators but there is a LOT more pressure on the flight crew when there are a couple of hundred passengers in an airplane than there is in a simulator

 

[NYlakesider]

Glad I do not have any Boeing stock!

 

[yaktamer]

Such a disaster on so many levels. Just wait to they start flooding the roads with autonomous driving cars, we aint seen nuttin yet. I just read something recently that their going to start rolling out large numbers of them in Florida.

I'm torn on the autonomous car thing. I have a disabled son who may or may not be able to drive. It could potentially dramatically improve his ability to live independently. But I foresee government control of our freedom of movement as the inevitable result. Not looking forward to the day when I'm told I can't drive my fossil-fuel fired vehicle to go off-roading, camping, hunting, etc. or am forced into urban living, which is where I see this going.

 

[delcrossv]

.... But I foresee government control of our freedom of movement as the inevitable result. Not looking forward to the day when I'm told I can't drive my fossil-fuel fired vehicle to go off-roading, camping, hunting, etc. or am forced into urban living, which is where I see this going.

Motorcycle. If autonomous becomes mandatory, I'm back on the bike.

 

[Absalom]

...
most of my flying was in the 1970's and back then the pilots had gray hair and LOT of real time in the cockpit. over the years they probably scared themselves a couple of times. back then simulators either didn't exist or were real basic. today I think they stress the simulator time too much and not enough on real hours.

you can say all you want about simulators but there is a LOT more pressure on the flight crew when there are a couple of hundred passengers in an airplane than there is in a simulator

Actually, when done right, a simulator is far superior to the real thing in preparing pilots for unusual experiences. You can’t take a plane full of passengers up and say “Okay, let’s try to fly into a microburst with windshear at 500 feet and see if you can recover before we smack into the ground!”

In fact, the problem in commercial aviation today is that actual flying experience is so much by the numbers and based on following SOP’s and using the autopilot that “experience” as expressed in flying hours doesn’t mean that much.

The most notorious example is Air France 447, an Airbus A330 which its crew crashed into the Atlantic in 2009 because they were overwhelmed by a comparatively minor instrument malfunction; for a full 4.5 minutes the co-pilot flying held the plane in a full stall, causing it to plunge into the ocean. Based on the CVR, he never realized what he was doing.

And with Boeing’s feature which apparently was the culprit in the 737 Max crashes, the “training” didn’t even include simulator time, let alone real training. They were supposed to complete it on an i-pad, probably to cut cost and make the whole package more attractive to customers. Just like a real out-of-control plane, right?

 

[JcMack]

Remember when you had to set the spark advance and throttle, then get out and crank the thing to start it? Lotta work and broken jaws but at least you had respect for the vehicle and it's ability to really help or really hurt you.
Autonomous? gimme a friggen break. People are either being bred to be dumber or dumb is the new norm.

 

[dockmurgw]

Autonomous? gimme a friggen break. People are either being bred to be dumber or dumb is the new norm.

While not always possible when dealing with them, I try to be nice and simply refer to them as the smart phone generation. They are the ones that follow a smart phone gps over a cliff, or into a lake at a ferry crossing because their smart phone told them they could cross there (actually happened here recently). They are the ones drooling over self driving uber cars, coming to a road near you. God help us all...if you have a spare bedroom, invite an accident lawyer to move in with you...your going to need it.

 

[spricks]

Glad I do not have any Boeing stock!

I do... a lot of it....I'm hoping things work out for them....buy low sell high...I'm hanging on for the long haul....scared money should stay on the sideline and not be invested...we will see.

spricks

 

[Onomea]

Hmm. I think Spricks has a point. Maybe time to buy Boeing.

Re autonomous cars and considering the dangers thereof, I think at times we forget how many accidents and deaths we have with our current, driver driven cars. I would guess we don’t have enough experience yet with driverless, but I would be curious to see a miles driven to accident ratio between the two.

As I get older, I like the idea of autonomous cars more and more, frankly. I like the idea of it being an individual choice: Drive your own, buy an autonomous, hire a driven car, or hire an autonomous...

 

[Narragansett]

Glad I do not have any Boeing stock!

That stuff will be headed down faster than a Jap Zero in a Kamikaze dive

 

[Jessie]

Absalom is right about simulators. You can learn to fly about any type aircraft on a decent simulator, provided you’re already a licensed pilot.
I’m talking a motion simulator and not a laptop.

 

[italiansport]

Going back to Boeing: IMO: What even needs to be done to correct these problems with Boeing aircraft has to do done. If Boeing goes under we might just as well cede all commercial aircraft production to the Europeans. Not a good strategic move for the United States!
Jim

 

[soFlaNative]

Hard to keep track of an institution's business, what all is subbed out and kept in house.
Like dock said losing this company would be a disaster starting with jag's son and countless others.
Stock? Any one remember Bhopal and Union Carbide? R.J. Reynolds?
Hope Boeing gets their stuff together.

 

[Jessie]

I do too. It’s been a great company that has helped us to win wars and go to space.
They MUST get in front of this and get it fixed!
I have an old bumper sticker that says “ if it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going”
I hope they can bring back that sentiment.

 

[shouldazagged]

They are in deep sewage. I believe I saw a story that they lost one big sale to Airbus recently.

Too bad, but when you cut corners...

 

[swsig]

Here's a radical idea: Maybe Boeing could design an aircraft that was actually flown by the pilots. Seems like that used to work at one time.