The most iconic all metal 9mm pistols in history...

[samandglove1]

I've been a huge fan of the Hi Power and Model 39 for years.

I also feel that with it's utilization (military/LEO/civilian), units sold, and mainstream (movies and television) popularity, the Beretta 92/M9 has to be the most iconic 9mm for the past 30-40 years.

If I had to pick one, though, I would choose my early 1950's FN Hi Power.

 

[hangnoose]

THE OP SAID ICONIC

NOT: best/prettiest/ best functioning/ most accurate, not the one you would NOW take to battle. We are drifting all over the place. The Broom handle Mauser (not actually designed by P. Mauser himself) hit the market in 1896 (not available in 9mm until1912) saw use in WWl, carried by royalty & many famous people like Winston Churchill. It had some unique charecteristics even today such as a mag in front of the trigger and mag capacity of 6/10/20 rounds, in earlier models. The Browning Hi Power (a fine weapon) didn't hit the market until 1935, Browning died in 1926, & it didn't start selling in the US until 1954. IMO the Hi Power was far from JM Brownings best work. That might go to the 1911, lever rifles/shotguns, or automatic military machine guns. Browning would get my vote for the best gun designer of all time.

 

[loeman]

Great thread! I really enjoyed the discussion.

I own seven of the eleven guns pictured in the OP. Of my seven I feel the SIG P210 is the finest. The fit, finish and accuracy is amazing.

The S&W Md 39 is the most visually appealing. This gorgeous gun has great overall form and ergonomics

But the most interesting 9 I have is definitely the HK P7. Great accuracy, ergonomics, conceal ability, unique design in both form and function.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I disagree. The M39 basically started it all for both Smith & Wesson and America in the DA semi auto world. Its definitely an icon, in my opinion.

As far as reliability is concerned, I've had better luck with my 39s than I have with my Lugers. That said, reliability wasn't really part of the equation.

Well, IIRC, the Model 39's notorious malfunctions were the subject of one of the earliest issues of Gun Tests magazine. Some have said the 39 was the reason for the creation of Gun Tests magazine.

 

[kwill1911]

Tier 1: Broom handle Mauser, Luger, P380 (?)
Tier 2: Browning high power, Makarov
Tier 3: Sig 226, H&K,CZ's, Berreta 92's others

I would say Browning wins, hands down. At least half the pistols pictured are Browning or Browning derivatives.

 

[BigBill]

I personally put the CZ75/85 in front. She rocks with that DA first shot plus the reliability and dependability is unmatched. She's not finicky about what ammo I feed her. My CZ 85DB has been an excellent choice for my very first pistol in 9mm luger/parabellium.

The German pistols are ammo finicky. They can handle the 9mm higher pressure rounds or even the hotter standard ammo. I've heard stories were some guys have installed stronger recoil springs so they could shoot the hotter ammo only to have the frames crack. There's a reason the Germans installed a cross bolt on the P1. (P38 clone with an alloy frame)

The Russian '30 tokarev in 7,62x25 too doesn't get any simpler. It's a far stretch from a nagant revolver for sure. There are many countries who copied the tokarev. The yugo with there model 57'

The Swedish Lahti in 9mm is made by husqvarna is one heavy pistol.

The LLama extra in 9mm Largo is also a full size 1911 pistol and it's a large size pistol when we compare it to the star 1911 style pistols.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Early SIG. Has some kind of Mauser influence going on with the grip area. This is not a good thing. Slide too skinny in relation to large grip. Disproportioned like a bad Jaguar. Might be good tool for mixing chocolate, however. Dismissed.

Not to be too picky, but the SIG 210 was not based on any Mauser. You may be thinking of certain HK designs, such as the lilttle HK copy of the Mauser HSc, called the HK P4, a convertible little pistol that could be had in 4 calibers, I thnk.

The SIG 210 was based on the Charles Petter design, the French Model 1935A.

I have handled and fired the P210 SIG quite extensively, and it feels better than it looks, it is quite thin, very ergonomic, more accurate than even an S&W Performance Center pistol, while maintaining military reliability, and that is saying something. A friend has a couple 210s, one of which has more than 100,000 rounds down range with absolutely no issues, ever. Although the "feel" of a firearm is subjective, in my experience, the only people who do not think a 210 feels just right in the hand are people who have not had experience with the pistol. If you have shot the 210, obviously, you are one of a small minority who think the 210 is "disproportioned."

The only thing against the 210 is the cost, but then again, you get what you pay for.

Edit: Some may say the European magazine release is a problem, but as it is a secondary weapon, the assault rifle being the primary weapon, it is thought that release of the magazine should not be unintentional, which explains why the more secure heel release is used, and why early Glocks did not have "drop free" magazines. That feature is/was demanded by the Europeans. Caliber is always a matter of discussion, so I suppose some may see 9mm as a disadvantage also, but I do not. Capacity is important to many, so that may also be seen as a disadvantage. SIG thought of everything, and back in about 1949, when they were developing the 210, they had a high capacity model, if I recall correctly, called the 44/16, but it was not adopted, and did not go into production.

 

[bc1023]

Well, IIRC, the Model 39's notorious malfunctions were the subject of one of the earliest issues of Gun Tests magazine. Some have said the 39 was the reason for the creation of Gun Tests magazine.

The original extractor on the standard 39 was an issue, but the 39-2 was one of the most reliable pistols of its day. I've got both.

Like I said, the thread really wasn't about total reliability.

 

[bc1023]

Not to be too picky, but the SIG 210 was not based on any Mauser. You may be thinking of certain HK designs, such as the lilttle HK copy of the Mauser HSc, called the HK P4, a convertible little pistol that could be had in 4 calibers, I thnk.

The SIG 210 was based on the Charles Petter design, the French Model 1935A.

I have handled and fired the P210 SIG quite extensively, and it feels better than it looks, it is quite thin, very ergonomic, more accurate than even an S&W Performance Center pistol, while maintaining military reliability, and that is saying something. A friend has a couple 210s, one of which has more than 100,000 rounds down range with absolutely no issues, ever.

The only thing against the 210 is the cost, but then again, you get what you pay for.

I'm fortunate enough to own just about all the high end, center fire pistols from around the world and I don't think anything quite equals the combination of build quality, accuracy, durability, and pedigree of the P210. There are a few pistols that can match its build quality and there are some that can even match its accuracy. However, when you combine all the qualities I mentioned, the P210 stands alone, in my opinion. It really has no equal.

 

[Mike McLellan]

I'm a revolver guy, through and through, but that collection of yours has me wondering if I'm missing something. Very nice bunch of guns you have there.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

As I recall, the original S&W 39 was termed the "Jam O Matic" by those who first purchased it . . . definitely not iconic, but it certainly improved the proficiency of the user in clearing malfunctions . . .

I'm not going to argue with you on this one, but. The main problem at the time was proper lubrication, the 39 needs it to run. I've heard and read about I believe it was the Illinois State police was lubing them with WD-40. And with WD_40s propensity to run off and sorta evaporate over time that lead to malfunctions. Now I wasn't there but I do know that with proper maintenance and lubrication my dash 2 has never malfunction with its preferred ammunition and it wasn't too fussy about what it ate.

 

[Tyree1867]

The OP's focus was "most iconic". Following that line my vote is for the Walther P38.

 

[KEN L]

The 9mm is my favorite cartridge and I love the long history of it. I took this pic a few months ago of what I consider to be the most iconic all metal 9mm pistols ever. I grouped them in three tiers, with the top row being the most iconic of them all. Within the rows, they are in no particular order.



The four most iconic 9mm pistols in my opinion, are the S&W 39, Walther P38, Browning Hi Power, and Luger P08.

Next I went with the Sig P226, CZ 75, Sig P210, and Beretta 92.

Rounding out the group, I chose the HK P7M8, Radom P35, and Star Model B






I hesitated before I put the 39 in the top row, as its the only one in the top that never saw a World War. However, as an American pistol, it sure was important in this country. Its the only American pistol in the picture. Being that the 9mm is a European round, I think that makes sense.

Overall, I think the Browning Hi Power is the most iconic, as it was built around the cartridge, has an unmatched military pedigree within the group, and is still in production today.

I'm just curious as to everyone's thoughts and maybe what you would add and/or subtract. I kept polymer pistols out of it, but will certainly say the Glock 17 deserves to be pictured otherwise.

Thanks for looking and I appreciate your feedback.

That is an impressive collection of 9mm pistols you have. Your question is open to personal interpretation. Everyone will have their own opinion. Personally, when I think of the most iconic 9mm all metal handgun, it's the Luger. That's the picture that immediately comes to mind. But that's just me. I'm not saying it's the best, just the first one that I thought of when you asked that question. All of them are great in their own right, but to me, the Luger IS the most iconic.

Now, I'll ask you, which of them is the best shooting 9mm, in your hands?

 

[bc1023]

Now, I'll ask you, which of them is the best shooting 9mm, in your hands?

Out of what's pictured, the P210.

However, I've got a bunch of high end target 9mms that are not shown here.

 

[Engine49guy]

Great Thread !

Not to be too picky, but the SIG 210 was not based on any Mauser. You may be thinking of certain HK designs, such as the lilttle HK copy of the Mauser HSc, called the HK P4, a convertible little pistol that could be had in 4 calibers, I think....

The HK copy of the Mauser HSc was the HK 4,
The "P4" was an updated version of the Walther P1.

Also I think db meant the grip frame shape of the Sig P210 was similar in appearance to the Walther P38 (also made by Mauser in WWII) with a similar butt shape, lanyad loop and grip grooves ...trigger looks more like a 1950 Beretta 380,

Im not knocking the high quality Sig P210 but IMO its hardly "Iconic" and I would venture to guess that if 100 shooters at an American gun range were shown a P210 the majority would say they never saw or heard of one before, Probably goes for several of the 9mm's pictured like the Radom etc, the same group presented with a Luger or Walther P38 probably would know the name, caliber and what country it was from....and thats "Iconic".

My updated "Iconic metal frame 9mm" short list in the order they appeared is as follows,
Luger (1908), Browning HP (1935), Walther P38 (1938), S&W Model 39 (1955), S&W Model 59 (1971), Beretta 92 (1975), CZ75 (1975), HK P7 (1979), S&W Model 659 (1982).

 

[bc1023]

Great Thread !



My updated "Iconic metal frame 9mm" short list in the order they appeared is as follows,
Luger (1908), Browning HP (1935), Walther P38 (1938), S&W Model 39 (1955), S&W Model 59 (1971), Beretta 92 (1975), CZ75 (1975), HK P7 (1979), S&W Model 659 (1982).

Certainly a respectable list, but I can't give S&W that many entries with such similar pistols. I'd venture to say as many people could identify a P210 as they could a few on that list.

I think a Swiss military pistol that transformed into one of the greatest target pistols ever deserves a bit more credit than a 659.

 

[hangnoose]

PERFORMANCE ASIDE.

An Icon is a visual representation or image of something "usually religious". Iconic would be something that appears like/resembles/ or has charecteristics of an Icon. Of that VERY FINE group of 9mm's in the OP's post the Luger would likely be the only one able to be identified by NON GUN people. I've yet to see a pistol that resembles a B.H. Mauser in any way. IMO the 1911, BHM, & Luger were the original real deals when it comes to semi auto's & most that followed "borrowed" something from at least 1 of those 3.

 

[wbraswell]

Iconic, I would give the BHP and Luger #1 and #1A, take your pick. Best looking, the S&W DAs have never struck me as very attractive, graceful looking pistols. I would pick the Luger, preferably with a 5" barrel. My favorite, the BHP. Out of curiosity, when did Colt start to chamber the 1911 in 9mm?

 

[hangnoose]

WHEN DID COLT ISSUE A 9MM 1911?

I used the 1911 (which we all know is 45acp) as an example of an early/original truly iconic pistol which the BHP borrowed some major ideas from. Yes the BHP is one of the finest handguns ever built.

 

[bc1023]

Guys, when I was trying to decide between the BHP and Luger as the #1, I considered everything carefully.

I gave the Luger credit for being around longer and I gave the Hi Power credit for outlasting the Luger and being much, much more popular.

However, the deciding factor for me was that the Luger WAS NOT designed as a 9mm. Its really that simple. Likewise, when I think of an iconic Luger, I don't want 9mm. I want 30 Luger.

You may see it differently, but I'm giving you my reasoning.