The myth of draw speed

mikerault

mikerault

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We all know the scene, two men facing off amano amano and the winner is the fastest one to the draw. Now, how often in real life does this happen? In almost every case I have read about the BG has their gun out first or you have several seconds of warning of a BG in your house, store, whatever. I don't ever recall a story of a person defending them themselves from a bad guy where draw speed was really a major factor in the outcome.

Now, if non-LEOs have some actual verifiable cases where draw speed was a critical part of their defense in a real BG verse GG situation I would love to read them!
 
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Just because your opponent has his gun out first dosen't mean he wins. A rapid draw and good shot placement will win against an untrained and excited aggressor. I practice to smoothly deploy my gun, and accurately engage my targets. I hope I haven't wasted the last 40 years ;)
 
I know alot of people that are or were fast on the draw.

Never try to draw a gun on a person that has their gun already out. They can pull a trigger faster than a person can draw. Even appearing to be drawing a gun can get you shot before you have the gun half way out of a holster.

Having been through more long term training in firearms and working the streets for 38 years, I cannot recall once where a person won the battle drawing against a person with a gun pulled on them.

I have seen perps with guns drawn shot by someone not noticed by the perp and I have seen people shot while trying to get a gun but I have yet to see someone win by pulling their own gun.

I got $50 that says I can accurately fire two rounds before someone can get their gun unholstered. Even if a person missed their target initially, the intended target will be taken by suprize just hearing the gunshot and either stumble or get distracted.

Read Bill Jordan's book, "No Second Place Winner."

Get a timer and see how long it takes to draw and accurately fire. Then time how many shots you can get off in the same amount of time. Another consideration is the holsters of today are not the fast draw type used in exhibit shooting. They are made for retention and comfort, not instant availability. Then we have the concealed guns. Clothing has to be moved to get to the gun, even a pocket holstered gun.
 
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In my opinion, after 35 years of use and practice, the object in draw-practice is simply to develop and instinctive and smooth draw. Speed is secondary, as pointed out by oldman45. You would have to be faster than light to beat a perp who has his gun out and ready... and you cannot count on him missing you. Contrary to the gunslinger mentality, there comes a point where you must decide whether your wallet is worth the risk or whether the perp intends to pull the trigger anyway. Circumstances dictate the draw, not speed.
 
I have a close friend who drew against the drop a few years ago.
He was being held at gunpoint in a motel parking lot and drew his Hi-Standard .22Mag derringer and shot the robber in the torso. Robber died on the scene. Happened in Columbia, SC. (My friends partner also ran out of the motel room when he heard the shot and put two .45 rounds in the perp, but the .22Mag killed him.)
It can be done.
 
I would vote speed a close second in priority to consistency. Don't take shortcuts to make the draw a .10 faster (like barely sweeping the concealing garment). It will get hung up on the gun eventually if you don't really throw it out of the way.
 
I don't think most people practice their draw in anticipation of a duel.... they do so to be able to draw their weapon as quickly and effectively as possible regardless of the situation.
 
This is a vastly broad subject. I don't believe one answer is entirely valid because the tactical scenario would dictate the appropriate response. If your covered by a street thug in an armed robbery, statistically, if they get what they want from you, their not interested in risking homicide conviction. Personally, I would not draw on him....until his back was turned, providing he did not discover my primary piece or back up and relieve me of them.

In cases involving emotionally disturbed people, it's a wild card. Look at the incident with the school board shooting. The perps weapon was drawn and he was firing but the school security officer dusted him anyway.

Firing from good cover is another scenario where I wouldn't hesitate to draw. As a policeman I was involved in a few running street gun fights related to drugs and a few armed robbery's. In each case the suspects were fleeing firing weapons. It took me about 1 millisecond to react and I did not hesitate to return fire.

I agree absolutely that attemting to draw when someone has you covered up close and personal, would always be a fatal mistake. The real myth of draw speed comes from the theatrical interpretations where there is a "showdown'. Which we all know to be largely dime novel nonsense.

Cheers;
Lefty
 
I would ask the resident historians around here just what gunslingers were killed in face to face fast draws.

There is none I know of. Most of the wild west people were shot in the back ambushed or else hit while in a prolnged gunfight where there was adequate concealment.

The days of Gunsmoke duels is something for television.

The school board shooting mentioned above is not comparing apples to apples. The deputy was concealed and had time to plan his shots. My money says he would not have considered drawing his weapon had he been across from the gunman.
 
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This is exactly why I don't mind wearing an ankle holster 99 percent of the time.

BTW....

Mano-a-mano is a Spanish construction meaning "hand to hand". It was used originally for bullfights where two matadors alternate competing for the admiration of the audience.[1]
Current Spanish usage describes any kind of competition between two people where they both compete trying to outdo each other.
Within the Doce Pares Eskrima fighting system, it is one of the three ranges of engagement, specifically the closest one. This does not indicate solely unarmed combat.
This term has been adopted in English with similar meaning, possibly by Ernest Hemingway. The English adoption can be likened to the phrases "one on one", "head to head", or "single combat" and conveys the idea of intense competition.
It is commonly misunderstood as a cognate by English speakers who think that the term means "man to man", such as in the 2009 MTV Movie Awards, where presenters for Best Kiss, Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds, referred to two gay kisses nominated as "mano a mano".
 
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The gun doesn't put itself in your hand. Regardless of how you carry you should be well practiced at accessing your weapon. There's no excuse for being slow on the draw.
 
Bill Jordan's exhibition performances including drawing and firing before a spectator could clap his hands.

One of his old buddies, then Sheriff at Rock Springs, WY was put on trial for shooting a man before the man got his gun out of the holster. When the Sheriff proved he was fast enough to do it anytime, he was acquitted.

Some people are just exceptionally fast.
 
You can have the best holster known to man.
When it is time for it.
The best place for your gun in in your hand.

An Old Training Officer at the Detroit Police Academy, 1974
 
mikerault said:
We all know the scene, two men facing off amano amano and the winner is the fastest one to the draw. Now, how often in real life does this happen? In almost every case I have read about the BG has their gun out first or you have several seconds of warning of a BG in your house, store, whatever. I don't ever recall a story of a person defending them themselves from a bad guy where draw speed was really a major factor in the outcome.

Now, if non-LEOs have some actual verifiable cases where draw speed was a critical part of their defense in a real BG verse GG situation I would love to read them!
Click to expand...

Speed kills! But, sometimes the one who dies is not the one who is fast. Early in our marriage, my wife and I lived in a high-crime area of New Orleans where I was enrolled in seminary. In the first two years, we dealt with three attempted break-in's. In each case, I got a gun and run them off. Not once was there any sort of fiddling waiting to see if any one of them was going to present a weapon. I didn't intend to give them any chances. A few years later I had to deal with a man who enter our church, which was located across the road from the parsonage. I came on him with a flashlight in one hand and a revolver in the other hand. He didn't reach for anything. I was glad. The last 24 years have been "quiet." Quiet is nice.
 
It's important to be able to deploy your weapon quickly and efficiently if the need should arrise, however if you think you can outdraw a gun already pointed at you with a finger already on the trigger you're either kidding yourself or you're the Waco Kid. The only times it happens is when the perp freezes and doesn't fire or his weapon fails. There's always a slight chance of that happening, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. If all he wants is your money you can replace that. If you're sure he's gonna shoot anyways either stall and distract to create opportunity or dive for cover and come out firing but don't try to win a hundred yard dash against someone who has a ninety yard head start.
 
Anyone who would stand in one place and attempt to "out draw" a person who already has the drop on them, has a death wish. You would be well advised to MOVE! Deliberate, tactically sound lateral movement, combined with a smooth, fast draw and accurate fire, is going to provide you with a much better chance of surviving such a situation than simply relying on a "fast draw".
 
OKFC05 said:
Bill Jordan's exhibition performances including drawing and firing before a spectator could clap his hands.

One of his old buddies, then Sheriff at Rock Springs, WY was put on trial for shooting a man before the man got his gun out of the holster. When the Sheriff proved he was fast enough to do it anytime, he was acquitted.

Some people are just exceptionally fast.
Click to expand...

The fact you omitted is both those in the examples you mentioned carried open and practiced hours each day.

Concealed carry is vastly different. Also Bill Jordan was a great man personally and wonderful to be around but he modified his equipment to suit his needs. The avg shooter will not modify a $200 holster with an exacto knife or leave it sitting in a bucket of dishwater so it will conform to the bun better.

In my long life, I have been on the scene of many, many shootings and present at the time of a few. Only once that I can remember that a man pulled on the badguy and won.
 
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