The old progressive dilema

[Tom S.]

I can't answer your shell plate question, but for $100, you struck gold.

I suffered through the Lee experience with not one but two 1000's. I bought a 650 (no, I'm not made of money but was working a lot of overtime then) and have nothing but good things to say about it and Dillon customer service. They even answer dumb questions!

 

[Wee Hooker]

Which brings me to my wish list:


HEY LEE, how about marketing a full progressive press that uses the same 4 whole turrets as the LTC. If anybody can do it, you guys can.

 

[MyDads38]

Which brings me to my wish list:


HEY LEE, how about marketing a full progressive press that uses the same 4 whole turrets as the LTC. If anybody can do it, you guys can.

I've been wondering the same thing for a few years, why can't they upgrade the Pro 1000 to a 4 hole classic design? I'd try one, if they did

 

[fredj338]

Good lord!!! I've been loading 46 years on my RCBS single stage press. I load for about 20 calibers. I guess that I'm just an anachronism....I have thought about progressive presses, but every time I get ready to buy, some gun that I've "wanted all my life" turns up. You guys make me feel like the old timer that I am!!

One thing that struck me above, is the poster who likes to have a tray of 50 rounds to look across to see that there are no double or more charges, and no missed charges. That's me. I'm going back and read his post again.

Best Regards

There are probably more squibs & double charges done with a ss & loading blocks. Anytime you are handling multiple pieces, potential for multiple mistakes.
If you are using a progressive correctly, you are verifying each powder charge before seating a bullet. One charged case to look into, one point only to make a mistake.

 

[les.b]

Well, Fred, I won't argue the point, I should have made the change years ago, but I always seem to find some new gun that I need, or stock up on powder, primers, bullets, lead, etc., etc. and sometimes I'm glad I did.

Just one example: before the last ammo shortage, Walmart had federal .45 ammo for a really low price. Loaded ammo, FMJ stuff, but about as cheap as I could load it myself. And they had tons of it. And there are about 5 Walmarts around where I live. They were selling it by the 100 Rd box, and you could get it in the 500 Rd "case". I had no idea that we were facing a shortage, but every time I went into Walmart, there was all that ammo sitting there, and no one was interested. So every time I was there, I'd buy a case or two. Now don't get me wrong, I was not trying to take anything away from my fellow shooters, but it seemed prudent to buy.

6 months later, I sure was glad I did. You couldn't find any 45 anywhere, for any price. And I was doing the same thing with other calibers as well. And of course I save the brass for reloading, and I weathered the ammo famine pretty well. Also stock up on primers and powder whenever it is available, and all that takes up a lot of my disposable income.

In case you think that I am selfish, I also share my ammo with friends who didn't bother to stock up when they had the chance!

Not to mention buying guns whenever I get a chance.

So, I have just never gotten around to updating my press. May one of these days, but right now might be one of those times when I ought to stock up on powder and primers instead, because I don't like what might be coming down the road!!

Anyway, best Regards, Les

 

[Thomas15]

I've been wondering the same thing for a few years, why can't they upgrade the Pro 1000 to a 4 hole classic design? I'd try one, if they did

I have no real knowledge of the mind of the Lee family but I do know a thing or two about marketing. Lee has set out to satisfy a specific segment of the reloading market. Dillon has actually done the same, it's just a different part of the market. Lee has figured out what the price that their market will pay and design their products around the cost. If they move off that point by say 10% they will lose a certain amount of market share.

If Lee were to market a progressive press to seriously compete with Dillon or Hornady then the cost will be similar to Dillon or Hornady. And no one will buy them because if you decide to pay Dillon or Hornady prices you are buying a Dillon or Hornady not Lee.

This is the reason why Lee is not probably going to incorporate the inline fabrications reverse rotating shell ejector on their turret press. If they charge the extra $40.00-$50.00 to make the change buyers will opt for an RCBS or Lyman turret press which has about 4 times the iron of the Lee. Lee knows that 98% of the buyers of their turret press are looking for the least expensive press they can find and making any changes will push the retail price in the wrong direction.

Remember one fact of life, the minute a company stops making a profit they begin a death spiral.

I don't say any of this to be mean, just the facts of life. I think it was Fred a few posts above mentioned that a Dillon 650 that you use for 25 years will end up costing about $2.00/month. And at the end of the 25 years if you decide to pass it on, someone will be delighted to take it and use it for another 25 years. You get what you pay for. How many of us have a safe full of guns that cost $600.00 or more? Most of us would be my guess.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that your Lee press makes inferior ammo. I have one and it works fine. It's just that I like a more robust press.

 

[Thomas15]

.....snip.....Now don't get me wrong, I was not trying to take anything away from my fellow shooters, but it seemed prudent to buy.

6 months later, I sure was glad I did. You couldn't find any 45 anywhere, for any price. And I was doing the same thing with other calibers as well. And of course I save the brass for reloading, and I weathered the ammo famine pretty well. Also stock up on primers and powder whenever it is available, and all that takes up a lot of my disposable income.

In case you think that I am selfish, I also share my ammo with friends who didn't bother to stock up when they had the chance!

.........end snip..............

Anyway, best Regards, Les

Les no one thinks your selfish at all. If you see something and you want to buy it that's your right to do so. No apology necessary.

Not to put words in Fred's mouth but I think he is reacting to the often made implication that slower is somehow better when it comes to making your own ammo. Not saying you do it but a lot do. Personally I don't care one way or the other but we are having a conversation and I'm including myself in that conversation. There are those that imply that somehow spending less money than the next guy makes them a better person. Not saying your do that either. Don't get me wrong, those who open up their wallets wide can be obnoxious about it also but at least to their credit they are not usually making the false claim that their tooling of choice is safer than the other guys.

I have loaded 1 squib round in my life and that was on a rockchucker. My fault and I accept responsibility but I have since shot a ton of ammo from my progressive no squibs.

I fought the urge to go progressive for about a year and a half. Once I caved I found there is no going back. The damage is permanent.

But Les I agree with you, having a stock of powder, primers and bullets with a single stage press to process your ammo is far better than having a high cost progressive and no powder. And I think that now is a good time to stock up.

 

[MJFlores]

I'm still using the Rockchucker I bought in the 80s and cant see myself moving away from it. I'm in no hurry. I have my own range and do quite a bit of shooting, and have no problems keeping up. I mostly buy bulk 9mm and 556 because you just cant load as cheap as you can buy loaded ammo. I mean, I'm getting 9mm at 10.50 a box and 500 556 LC for 159.00. I load all my .44 and .357 revolver rounds as well as .223, .30/06, and .32 Win special. It's expensive buying bullets and primers. I break up loading chores into stages and it doesn't seem to be taking it's toll

 

[johngalt]

I've been using the Hornady LNLAP since 2008, I like it a lot. I like the bushing system for plugging in dies, the auto index, 5 stations, and it won't dump primers on the floor.

 

[teletech]

Presses seem to accumulate on my benches and in the drawers around them, the only ones I've sold were a piggyback-2 to help fund my first Dillon and a lee ammomaster, it was too much like playing a game of mousetrap.
The cost on the 450 that Boogsawaste got was amazing and I'm sure with the ability to use standard dies it will work out well, I will say that I think a SQ-Deal-B might be easier on the shoulders. I think the lower reciprocating mass and shorter stroke make the little SQ-DB about the lightest press to work I've used. If it was me with a bum shoulder, I'd take the profit on selling the 450 and some dies and get a SQ-DB.

 

[Tom S.]

When you have a limited income, especially if you are raising a family, it can be very difficult to justify spending the same amount of money to buy a press like the Dillon 550 or 650, especially if your mindset is "I can buy another gun for that price.". Remember though, that Dillon stuff doesn't depreciate. Keep and use it long enough and you'll still be able to sell it for what you paid or even more.

 

[fredj338]

Well, Fred, I won't argue the point, I should have made the change years ago, but I always seem to find some new gun that I need, or stock up on powder, primers, bullets, lead, etc., etc. and sometimes I'm glad I did.

Just one example: before the last ammo shortage, Walmart had federal .45 ammo for a really low price. Loaded ammo, FMJ stuff, but about as cheap as I could load it myself. And they had tons of it. And there are about 5 Walmarts around where I live. They were selling it by the 100 Rd box, and you could get it in the 500 Rd "case". I had no idea that we were facing a shortage, but every time I went into Walmart, there was all that ammo sitting there, and no one was interested. So every time I was there, I'd buy a case or two. Now don't get me wrong, I was not trying to take anything away from my fellow shooters, but it seemed prudent to buy.

6 months later, I sure was glad I did. You couldn't find any 45 anywhere, for any price. And I was doing the same thing with other calibers as well. And of course I save the brass for reloading, and I weathered the ammo famine pretty well. Also stock up on primers and powder whenever it is available, and all that takes up a lot of my disposable income.

In case you think that I am selfish, I also share my ammo with friends who didn't bother to stock up when they had the chance!

Not to mention buying guns whenever I get a chance.

So, I have just never gotten around to updating my press. May one of these days, but right now might be one of those times when I ought to stock up on powder and primers instead, because I don't like what might be coming down the road!!

Anyway, best Regards, Les

Les, i'm not pushing anyone into a progressive, use what you like, i am just clarifying a false assumption that one process a safer than another.
As to cost of ammo vs reloading, if you can buy decent practice ammo for the cost of reloading, you are not purchasing your reloading supplies at the right places or quabtities to save real money. 50% of factory is the ballpark. If you shoot a lot, that is quite a bit of savings.

 

[Stan O]

Sorry, but that statement doesn't cut the mustard any more.

Dillon may build good stuff and have great CS, but if they discontinue a model, apparently, you are out of luck.

Absolutely untrue.
Just sent an early 80's discontinued model back to Dillon last week as it broke a casting in crimp station #4. They credited me the entire original price that I paid when purchased new!

 

[Qc Pistolero]

450shellplate

To answer your question Boogsawaste,I have a RL300 and the shellplates are the same as the 550.So I guess that the logical answer to your question is yes but just to make sure,send an email to Dillon and they will confirm.That's how I learned about it.
Qc

 

[apollo99]

Les when people stock up when supplies are plentiful, it's not selfish it's smart. You didn't knock over any old ladies trying to get the bullets. If it's available I buy, when it's not I shoot very conservatively from my supply.

 

[Clovishound]

Sorry, but that statement doesn't cut the mustard any more.

Dillon may build good stuff and have great CS, but if they discontinue a model, apparently, you are out of luck.

Absolutely untrue.
Just sent an early 80's discontinued model back to Dillon last week as it broke a casting in crimp station #4. They credited me the entire original price that I paid when purchased new!

OK, I believe you were the one who posted about their Dillon 450jr breaking and my understanding from your post was that Dillon CS wouldn't do anything for you. If you are the one, then I got the wrong impression of your experience.

 

[fredj338]

OK, I believe you were the one who posted about their Dillon 450jr breaking and my understanding from your post was that Dillon CS wouldn't do anything for you. Ifg you are the one, then I got the wrong impression of your experience.

Iam sure you break your old lee or hornady or rcbs, they are not likely to rebuild it if the parts dont exist.

 

[Thomas15]

Les when people stock up when supplies are plentiful, it's not selfish it's smart. You didn't knock over any old ladies trying to get the bullets. If it's available I buy, when it's not I shoot very conservatively from my supply.

Very true. And now would be a great time to start stocking up for perhaps another drought. No one knows what will happen but smart is being prepared. Even during the depth of the last shortage I was able to find powder but no way do I want to go through that again. And I will not because my bunker is in good shape.

Powder and primers a plenty. Bullets are the next thing. I think we all should have several years worth of supplies by the end of October just in case.

 

[les.b]

Flipmeister, I am still loading out of an 8 lb. keg of bullseye that was given to me in the early 70s, I think, by a guy who had had it "for awhile", and was afraid it might "go bad". Still performs just as it did back then. I use it for things like 32 S&W, where I load about two grains per cartridge. At 7,000 gr per pound, 8 pounds goes a long way. But my point is, it is still perfectly fine after at least 40 years, probably longer.

So, no, I don't worry about stocking up, ammo and primers ans lead and powder last a long time!!

Best Regards, Les