The Plug

[WP]

Hi All,
In my retirement I've been so busy having fun I've almost forgotten what a firearm looks like. Gees, I retired to have more shooting time and purchase more guns. So anyway I have a good collection of 1911's and BHP's. These have always been my favorites. Sure I've had revolvers but they were always the first to go if I needed money. Now I'm pretty secure with the money side of life and want to get a few choice revolvers, S&W that is. Holy Moly you can't find one with out the lock. So I've thought about this for a long time and am beginning to feel as if I could live with a lock if I could get the "plug". A few questions if you please:
Are the newly produced S&W revolvers with the lock as accurate as the older models?
Is one able to perform certain modifications on the new models such as action jobs?
Can anyone share a few picture of revolvers that have the plug/
I appreciate any info shared with me.
Thanks,
Bill/WP

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

The new S&W's are very accurate and the fit and finish is excellent by most accounts. You can have them Smithed to improve and lighten the trigger, if you desire. I'd recommend you first dry fire the revolver about 1,000 time, to break it in, then see what you think. I don't have a plugged revolver so I can't show you a pic.

All this said, the world is awash in old pre-lock, pre-MIM, S&W revolvers. I really like shooting 4-inch .38 Spl K-frames with adjustable sights. The Models 15's and 67's are plentiful and good examples can be found all day for under $550. If you like a longer tube there's the Model 14, another .38 Spl. It's a great 6-inch target revolver, and shooters in good condition are not real expensive.

 

[Louchia]

I think I'm missing something. What is the concern about the internal lock? Gunsmith I talked to said there is no problem to be concerned about. It can not accidently engage. If you don't like the look, look around. I just bought a new J frame and had my choice, lock or no. Good luck in finding what you want.

 

[at_liberty]

Hi All,
In my retirement I've been so busy having fun I've almost forgotten what a firearm looks like. Gees, I retired to have more shooting time and purchase more guns. So anyway I have a good collection of 1911's and BHP's. These have always been my favorites. Sure I've had revolvers but they were always the first to go if I needed money. Now I'm pretty secure with the money side of life and want to get a few choice revolvers, S&W that is. Holy Moly you can't find one with out the lock. So I've thought about this for a long time and am beginning to feel as if I could live with a lock if I could get the "plug". A few questions if you please:
Are the newly produced S&W revolvers with the lock as accurate as the older models?

Yes

Is one able to perform certain modifications on the new models such as action jobs?

Yes

Can anyone share a few picture of revolvers that have the plug

The key opening is all that is visible from the exterior. That opening is what the plug will fill with a matching color. It appears right above the cylinder release.

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/at_liberty/Guns/WP_20140502_003.jpg

BTW this particular gun has a trigger job, polished hammer and trigger, and throats reamed to .3575 for lead bullets. I have a plug kit for it but won't get it installed until my gunsmith is clear of two of my other guns.

 

[Comrad]

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Think carefully about how much the internal lock will really bother you before making a modification. I considered it, and finally rejected it as it just seemed unnecessary.

There are lots of old S&Ws out there for sale without locks. I just got this NIB 36-1 last week:

And then, a few days later a 22-4 NIB with lock:

I wouldn't change a thing on either one of them.

 

[Rick_A]

I'm working on picking up #5 for new S&W revolvers. If you're a collector you'll care about P&R, pre lock guns, and non MIM parts. If it's a carry gun or shooter none of that matters. All of my new guns have been exceptional including this "Plugged" model.


20140915_101230 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

 

[chief38]

NO PLUGS HERE - NO LOCKS EITHER.

 

[at_liberty]

NO PLUGS HERE - NO LOCKS EITHER.

I think they define that as "smug".

 

[TTSH]

So I've thought about this for a long time and am beginning to feel as if I could live with a lock if I could get the "plug".

No need. Just take your time and I'm sure you'll eventually find some really nice pre-owned pre-lock revolvers.

NO PLUGS HERE - NO LOCKS EITHER.

Yep. Same here. I have no desire or need to ever own an IL revolver.

I think they define that as "smug".

Meh, I can live with the label.

 

[WP]

I should have been a bit more descriptic concerning what S&W models I wanted. I know there are a plethora of older non-lock revolvers out there. I even have a few beautiful older N frames. What I left out from my initial question is that I really like some of the new styled revolvers that are only offered with the lock which I am considering buying but don't visually enjoy that hole....so wanted info on what people thought about the plug along with any good pictures they might have of a plug being used.
Sorry guys if I wasn't as clear as I could have been.
Bill/WP

 

[steelslaver]

Except for a few of the newest models like the 69 you can find very good examples of the older no lock guns. You might have to look for a while, but except in rare cases of certain of the rarer models with patience you can find most anything you would want without the lock for a price inline with newer lock guns or less. A good place to look is right here in the classified. I have had good luck on Gunbroker also.

I really don't have a big problem with the lock, but to me it is a solution to a problem you shouldn't ever have if you practice basic gun security and never have a gun where a kid or an idiot could get it. If you have a hide out gun in your house it wouldn't be so great to have to unlock it before you can use it. So, I would plug any lock gun if I ever get one myself.

 

[MJFlores]

I have a 629 with the lock. I hardly even notice it. The lock is easy to forget about, and mine has never "turned on" but I guess it can happen. My gun is quite accurate, so you shouldn't see problems there with new guns. The fit and finish of the newer S&W are poor, and what I deem unacceptable but they are what they are. There are quality issues so just expect to have to send the gun back to be corrected...I cant imagine how many guns they get back per week, from what I understand it's a lot. I had to send mine back twice to be corrected, and it never should have been shipped in the condition it was in when I bought it. Luckily, S&W will fix it eventually, or you can send it out to one of the many good revolver smiths to have whatever is needed done to it. The beauty of buying a pre lock is you'll get a revolver made right, when QA was more important than mass production. You may also be able to shoot it first which is key...new S&W's you have to buy and take it home and just hope it shoots straight. Mine DID NOT with it's badly aligned barrel. I've kind of decided to no longer buy new Smiths, and just seek out older models in great shape. They really don't cost that much more, and you're getting better build guns, with much better finishes, forged parts, etc. Walk into any gun store and look at the new stainless S&W's, anyone who can hold one of those and claim the finish to be good is blind and has simply never seen the finish that Smith "used" to put on their stainless guns. I mean...scratches and swirl marks? Thats UNfinished, not a finished revolver. Don't even get me started about the dull black coat they call blueing these days...that wipes off and discolors if you wipe the world's most popular bore cleaner on it. It's almost like it a comedy reality show over there or something.

 

[Rick_A]

The problem with "pre lock" guns is that in certain models and barrel lengths they command a premium that I'm not willing to pay.

And OP, everyone knows your intent, some folks just have to lament on their disdain concerning new guns and the lock.

I've come across plenty of older, ragged, loose and broken K frames, so the lore of the perfected and enduring pre lock is a bit overblown.

I like buying local and being able to physically inspect the gun I may take home. Lately all the guns I've been looking for have found me quite readily, quite reasonably priced, and in great shape.

Base a decision on the individual example, not a preconceived notion.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

This was my first S&W with a lock

It's a 619; there is no "pre-lock" version of this made by S&W. They are now pretty hard to find and I'm glad to have it. The 620 would be in a similar category, and would only be found with the lock (maybe the 520 was prelock?)

I like this as much as any S&W in my collection; it will never get sold. I've thought about the plug from time to time, but in the end, just really don't see the point.

I reckon "to each his own" is an applicable perspective here.

 

[TTSH]

I've thought about the plug from time to time, but in the end, just really don't see the point.

Let me just add this: I own a pretty good collection of modern era S&W revolvers, none of which have the IL. And I've said before that I have zero desire or need to ever own an S&W revolver with an IL.

But if Hell froze over and somehow I changed my mind about that and bought one with the IL, I would not install the plug. Trying to hide the bad idea is worse, IMHO, than the bad idea itself.

 

[at_liberty]

Let me just add this: I own a pretty good collection of modern era S&W revolvers, none of which have the IL. And I've said before that I have zero desire or need to ever own an S&W revolver with an IL.

But if Hell froze over and somehow I changed my mind about that and bought one with the IL, I would not install the plug. Trying to hide the bad idea is worse, IMHO, than the bad idea itself.

Isn't that refusal to remove the lock just as irrational, obstinate, or bigoted as refusing to own guns with the lock? It's your collection...just trying to understand how some reason this (or don't).

 

[David R]

I have a new smith with the lock. NO big deal to me, I bought new because the lifetime warranty. I have old smiths too.

They are all good.

David

 

[TTSH]

Isn't that refusal to remove the lock just as irrational, obstinate, or bigoted as refusing to own guns with the lock?

Irrational??? Obstinate??? Bigoted??? Geez, can you insult me a little more? I don't think I've had enough yet.

My point was very simple. If the IL offends you, don't buy one with it. Buy a pre-lock. If you are okay with the IL, that's perfectly fine... but why then try to hide it? Either or. Not both.

 

[bananaman]

We all know that everybody has their own opinion??? A lock hole, or plugged hole, what makes the difference? I am surprised nobody has come up with an oversized cylinder release to hide it! It is what it is. I have only 1 lock gun. 625JM. Bob

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Isn't that refusal to remove the lock just as irrational, obstinate, or bigoted as refusing to own guns with the lock? It's your collection...just trying to understand how some reason this (or don't).

Although I don't agree with TTSH about not purchasing IL S&Ws, I understand what he is saying and agree about removal. From my perspective (which is not to say is THE perspective), fiddling around with original designs can open one up to all kinds of problems. You bring on unknown risk as well. If one wants to do that, that is fine, but it adds risk, and in this case perhaps some liability as well. I don't argue against anyone else using the plug. If there was a small cap that could fit over the lock itself, I might consider that.

I also have to say, that again, while I don't agree with TTSH about not purchasing an IL S&W due to the lock (and I suspect he doesn't care for MIM parts, two piece barrels and such modern additions), he is a fellow S&W owner and aficionado, so I support and respect his opinions on the forum; that's what makes this forum great, the many viewpoints and experiences of its members. I have learned a lot on these forum boards and made some friends too, even when we disagreed in taste to some degree. I will state my own fondness for the pre-lock era S&Ws. There is something about that near hand finished quality to many of them. I recently purchase a 1960s era model 36 (see picture above), and it amazes me how excellent the quality of that pre CNC machining and finish is on it.

I lived in Germany for many years, and was a hunter and sport shooter. The old German hunters love old S&Ws for finishing shots. They also love an old weapon called a Drilling. The Germans will tell you that the new Drillings (with super high price tags and CNC built) are junk, and that the old ones are the best. I have an old Drilling, and you can see that many parts were hand filed and finished. I think it's a similar issue; I don't think the new ones are junk really, but the older ones have an appeal due to that attention to detail that the new ones just don't seem to have. It is a "badge of honor" to show up for a group hunt over there with an old one, and the old hunters will nod their heads with approval. If you show up with a modern semi-auto (I have one of those too), they will roll their eyes a little, then expect a whole lot out of you from then on (in terms of adhering to hunting rules and taking game).


And for bananaman, it seems somewhere I read or saw something just like you mentioned, either an altered or oversized cylinder release. Has anyone heard of that or seen it? Seems like a saw a photo that someone had posted of it some time ago.

 

[eveled]

My new Smith's are all awesome, zero problems. I did instal the plugs, they only thing I can add to the conversation. Is that I did not like the black plugs as much as the stainless ones.

The black ones are harder to instal the stainless ones are a piece of cake. So on the black guns that have the silver dots on the side from protruding pins, (340pd) I would go with the stainless plug. On a black carry gun that appearances don't matter, like my 442, I would still go with the stainless plug.

The plugs are a great product, and I do recommend them if you have any doubt at all about the lock. Ed

 

[at_liberty]

Irrational??? Obstinate??? Bigoted??? Geez, can you insult me a little more? I don't think I've had enough yet.

My point was very simple. If the IL offends you, don't buy one with it. Buy a pre-lock. If you are okay with the IL, that's perfectly fine... but why then try to hide it? Either or. Not both.

Your feigned offense is a red herring. Recognizing that it may not be about you, perhaps we could just answer the question and gain a little insight..

 

[onemanwolfpack]

Bloodwork style 627 with plug...

 

[Rick_A]

Irrational??? Obstinate??? Bigoted??? Geez, can you insult me a little more? I don't think I've had enough yet.

My point was very simple. If the IL offends you, don't buy one with it. Buy a pre-lock. If you are okay with the IL, that's perfectly fine... but why then try to hide it? Either or. Not both.

It's not about "hiding it." It's about not having a hole in the frame when it's gone.

 

[HarrishMasher]

Go search and buy on Gunbroker.com. Hundreds if not a couple of thousand S&W revolvers WITHOUT the lock.

 

[mchom]

Same problem

I don't care for the IL either. But I was handling the new 325 TR and I could not get it out of my mind. So I did buy one and am waiting on my plug. It will be my first IL gun.

 

[Rick_A]

Go search and buy on Gunbroker.com. Hundreds if not a couple of thousand S&W revolvers WITHOUT the lock.

Sure, but that's also where a lot of stories of woe start.

Why pay the same or more for a gun in unknown condition (aside from visually) when a new one that can be handled in person is much less of a gamble?

I'm all for used guns, but not without a thorough inspection before buying.

 

[handejector]

Question asked and answered.