The Russians have gone in

[biku324]

Debunked Russian internet nonsense from 2 years ago.

In May 2020, as the coronavirus had fully spread across the world, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) issued a statement urging politicians to stop spreading misinformation about the existence of U.S. military biological labs in Ukraine.

"No foreign biological laboratories operate in Ukraine. Statements recently made by individual politicians are not true and are a deliberate distortion of the facts," the statement said.

In April 2020, the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine also issued a statement saying they want to "set the record straight" regarding disinformation surrounding U.S.-funded biological warfare laboratories in Ukraine.

The statement explained that the U.S. and Ukraine have had a partnership since 2005 to prevent the threat of outbreaks of infectious diseases, as well as allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development.

The partnership between the U.S. Defense Department and the Ukraine Ministry of Health is part of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, which began in 1991 with the aim of reducing the threat of weapons of mass destruction following the fall of the Soviet Union.
U.S. Biological Weapons in Ukraine—Separating the Facts From the Fiction

 

[ladder13]

Russia claims a response is coming to US oil embargo.



Russia threatens response to US after Biden 'declared economic war' | American Military News

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

That the Poles and President Biden can summon the courage AND devise a way to get some combat aircraft into Ukraine.

You got one out of two right.

 

[ladder13]

Thousands of tons of armaments provided to the Ukraine people by "NATO" is ok. Not an act of war.

Those same armaments are killing Russians in the air, on the ground, and apparently on the sea. Not an act of war.

But some planes flying in that same space would be "NATO" involvement? Act of war.

 

[arjay]

The goal is to contain it to Russia and Ukraine and not let it spread further.Ukraines in trouble in the short term and Russia is in the long term. If it spreads we will spend an ungodly amount rebuilding Europe and China will profit from it

 

[AJ]

Thousands of tons of armaments provided to the Ukraine people by "NATO" is ok. Not an act of war.

Those same armaments are killing Russians in the air, on the ground, and apparently on the sea. Not an act of war.

But some planes flying in that same space would be "NATO" involvement? Act of war.

Why not do like pictures that I have seen of our version of "Lend Lease" before we got into WW II. Why can't the Poles and the Ukrainians do the same?
Why Britain Pulled Aircraft with Horses and Trucks | by Karthick Nambi | Lessons from History | Medium

 

[ladder13]

Why not do like pictures that I have seen of our version of "Lend Lease" before we got into WW II. Why can't the Poles and the Ukrainians do the same?
Why Britain Pulled Aircraft with Horses and Trucks | by Karthick Nambi | Lessons from History | Medium

Good question. The CIA director has said he expects Putin to ramp up the attacks in coming days, making them more brutal.

 

[LVSteve]

Why not do like pictures that I have seen of our version of "Lend Lease" before we got into WW II. Why can't the Poles and the Ukrainians do the same?
Why Britain Pulled Aircraft with Horses and Trucks | by Karthick Nambi | Lessons from History | Medium

I've seen some ugly airplanes in my life, and the B-18 is up there on the WTH were they thinking list. Those aircraft were used by the Canadians AFAIK, using the name Digby.

British experience of the Luftwaffe hacking down Hampdens, Blenheims, Whitleys and Wellingtons at their leisure in daylight probably led to the abandonment of any plans for the B18's use in Europe.

 

[Absalom]

Thousands of tons of armaments provided to the Ukraine people by "NATO" is ok. Not an act of war.

Those same armaments are killing Russians in the air, on the ground, and apparently on the sea. Not an act of war.

But some planes flying in that same space would be "NATO" involvement? Act of war.

The problem is that we don't want to be the ones escalating it beyond the point where the potentially irrational guy snaps; so we have to at least watch his rhetoric and try to read the tea leaves.

As his speeches are showing, he is just making up stuff regarding Ukraine, unconnected to reality. He could make up an "act of war" tomorrow if he decides that's in his interest.

And he could put us in a real bind. What do we do if he gets frustrated and drops a little Hiroshima-sized tactical nuke on Kiew? Do we respond nuclear, even though technically we haven't been attacked? Do we try to "teach Putin a lesson" by wiping out a selected Russian city?

Compared to Putin, I really miss the old Soviet politburo. In hindsight, those old farts were endearingly predictable enemies.

 

[ladder13]

The problem is that we don't want to be the ones escalating it beyond the point where the potentially irrational guy snaps; so we have to at least watch his rhetoric and try to read the tea leaves.

As his speeches are showing, he is just making up stuff regarding Ukraine, unconnected to reality. He could make up an "act of war" tomorrow if he decides that's in his interest.

And he could put us in a real bind. What do we do if he gets frustrated and drops a little Hiroshima-sized tactical nuke on Kiew? Do we respond nuclear, even though technically we haven't been attacked? Do we try to "teach Putin a lesson" by wiping out a selected Russian city?

Compared to Putin, I really miss the old Soviet politburo. In hindsight, those old farts were endearingly predictable enemies.

Found this article. Lots of disagreements on all fronts.


How the US is trying to help Ukraine without triggering a wider war with Russia - CNNPolitics

 

[Beemerguy53]

It's a careful balancing act. Lots of stuff gets done faster and more efficiently on the QT … but the Ukrainians and their supporters also are desperate to get maximum moral-building effect out of possibly encouraging news, so they blast out anything positive on social media.

President Zelensky also gets ahead of himself sometimes trying to shame Western countries into doing more. I think he may be hoping for the "ask for the most so you at least get something" effect. A good example are his calls for a no-fly zone.

Realistically, that is unlikely to happen unless NATO makes a joint decision to go to all-out war against Russia. Past no-fly zones were based on total airspace control and were enforced against an already defeated enemy (Iraq) or technically far inferior opponents (Balkans). A no-fly zone over Ukraine would be more like the one which the Luftwaffe tried to enforce for the RAF over Britain in 1940. It would require not just shooting down Russian planes, but hunting mobile air defense units on the ground and hitting air defense installations inside Russia.

That would mean war. And with Putin, we don't know whether there is such a thing as limited war. I don't see that even being considered by Western countries.

Excellent points.

From the moment the press started reporting on Putin's troop buildup, and we all started talking about what might happen, I've been saying there are no good decisions to be made here...only bad ones and worse ones. That's still true.

It's so easy for those of us in the cheap seats to vent our spleens. What we're seeing play out in Ukraine is horrifying, and we want it to stop. The impulsive, "do-something-NOW" side of me says that the EU and USA, or NATO, could go in there and end this in a couple of days. But the people we depend upon to make rational decisions -- who are surely privy to more information than we have --have to show restraint.

Nobody wants to go down in history as the guy who provoked an evil sociopath into pulling the nuclear trigger.

 

[Ματθιας]

Hmmmm, according to U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland at a congressional hearing, "There are biological research facilities in Ukraine, and we fear that Russia will take control over them."

Yeah....

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNpgMJhvtpY[/ame]

 

[Beemerguy53]

Hmmmm, according to U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland at a congressional hearing, "There are biological research facilities in Ukraine, and we fear that Russia will take control over them."

Yeah....

The latest official government statement on this...

The Kremlin's Allegations of Chemical and Biological Weapons Laboratories in Ukraine - United States Department of State

 

[Ματθιας]

The latest official government statement on this...

The Kremlin's Allegations of Chemical and Biological Weapons Laboratories in Ukraine - United States Department of State

Somebody is lying.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland is admitting it in congressional testimony.

 

[LVSteve]

Somebody is lying.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland is admitting it in congressional testimony.

I see no contradiction between what Ms Nuland says in the video (attributed to RT no less ) and the State Department's statement. What did I miss.

 

[biku324]

Somebody is lying.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland is admitting it in congressional testimony.

Must be a giant, evil conspiracy. Yawn. Oh, wait - it's a public program.

Cooperative Threat Reduction Program
Operation and Maintenance, Defense-Wide
Fiscal Year (FY) 2021 Budget Estimates

I. Description of Operations Financed (cont.)

CTR-9

Management System to track weapons-useable nuclear materials at sites throughout the country.

Ukraine

Enhance Ukraine's capability to detect the loss, theft, or diversion of nuclear and high threat radiological materials, and return interdicted materials to regulatory control.

(new page)

D. Biological Threat Reduction Program (BTRP):

2019 funds executed over three years will:

Eastern Europe and Eurasia

 Continue to strengthen Turkey's Biosafety and Biosecurity (BS&S) capacity through mentorship and training opportunities for emerging biosafety professionals;

 Continue regional technical exchanges to improve the security of vulnerable laboratories and strengthen ability to detect unusual biological events, including potential intentional spread;

 Continue to support laboratory surveillance network optimization, especially dangerous pathogens (EDP) consolidation, and BS&S regulatory reform in Ukraine;

 Continue a Field Epidemiology Training Program in Ukraine;

 Continue engagement with regional biological threat.

https://comptroller.defense.gov/Por...and_Maintenance/O_M_VOL_1_PART_2/CTR_OP-5.pdf

 

[Beemerguy53]

Somebody is lying.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland is admitting it in congressional testimony.

I never underestimate the capacity of government officials to put a foot in the mouth occasionally, but I can't believe that Ms. Nuland's measured, slow answer, in a very public setting, is admitting to the existence of a biological weapons facility.

There are, you know, facilities with "Biohazard" warning signs that have nothing to do biological weapons...

 

[Ματθιας]

I see no contradiction between what Ms Nuland says in the video (attributed to RT no less ) and the State Department's statement. What did I miss.

The SD statement says that the claims of Biolabs in Ukraine are lies by the Russians.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland is saying that there are biolabs.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdOB4XgINRI[/ame]

 

[Ματθιας]

Must be a giant, evil conspiracy. Yawn.

I believe what I'm told to believe. Don't you?

 

[Beemerguy53]

The SD statement says that the claims of Biolabs in Ukraine are lies by the Russians.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland is saying that there are biolabs.

In the same way that a nuclear power plant doesn't make nuclear weapons, a "biolab" doesn't necessarily make biological weapons.

And in both cases, the products they do make could be misused, hence the legitimate concern about the security of such facilities.