The Smith and Wesson Governor: Misfit or Misunderstood?

If I'm in the bedroom. The governor because I'll be firing down the hallway with 6 projectiles in a second. Then 4 shots of 45LC hollow points which have been proven to be dead on to point of aim. Then my left hand is handing my right hand my 12+1 9mm.

That OK with you?

Sent from my Pixel XL 128
 
I'm not one of the apparently fortunate few who were born educated. The majority of my self-defense knowledge comes from training with and studying the writings and educational material from various instructors. I don't think there is a single one that I agree with on everything, but if all of the individuals I determine to be intelligent, experienced and knowledgable all have the same opinion on a specific subject, I would never ignore it. Every individual has to make their own decisions and come to their own conclusions, but to arrogantly dismiss what are considered some of the best instructors and experts in the world is very foolish in my opinion when we are talking about tools whose performance could potentially determine whether we live or die.

I'm not a prolific defensive firearms instructor nor a ballistics expert, so I seek out information from those who are to increase my knowledge and understanding and will usually defer to them to at least some degree in matters where their experience trumps mine. That doesn't mean they know everything, but any point of disagreement should be able to be articulated as to why you think differently.

The primary topic of this thread was the suitability of the Governor for home defense. Defending your family during a home invasion is a very serious matter, but many seem to approach it with no more solemness than choosing what they are going to wear in the morning or what they are going to have for dinner and act as if every choice is equally valid and simply a matter of personal preference. That is simply not true and I would detest uninformed good folks coming here looking for opinions on how to best defend their family be lead astray.
 
Mister X said:
I'm not one of the apparently fortunate few who were born educated. The majority of my self-defense knowledge comes from training with and studying the writings and educational material from various instructors. I don't think there is a single one that I agree with on everything, but if all of the individuals I determine to be intelligent, experienced and knowledgable all have the same opinion on a specific subject, I would never ignore it. Every individual has to make their own decisions and come to their own conclusions, but to arrogantly dismiss what are considered some of the best instructors and experts in the world is very foolish in my opinion when we are talking about tools whose performance could potentially determine whether we live or die.

I'm not a prolific defensive firearms instructor nor a ballistics expert, so I seek out information from those who are to increase my knowledge and understanding and will usually defer to them to at least some degree in matters where their experience trumps mine. That doesn't mean they know everything, but any point of disagreement should be able to be articulated as to why you think differently.

The primary topic of this thread was the suitability of the Governor for home defense. Defending your family during a home invasion is a very serious matter, but many seem to approach it with no more solemness than choosing what they are going to wear in the morning or what they are going to have for dinner and act as if every choice is equally valid and simply a matter of personal preference. That is simply not true and I would detest uninformed good folks coming here looking for opinions on how to best defend their family be lead astray.
Click to expand...


Do you have an issue with the .45 caliber? No? So what's wrong with the governor? Don't like .410? Don't shoot it. There have been plenty of tests of buckshot that show very high performance with tight groupings out to 7-10yards. I'll agree early on generic .410 rounds performed poorly, but that's no longer the case and has been invalidated by many tests documented online.

Further the Lehigh defense maximum expansion round, while made for other gun, seems most devastating out of the governor. That bullet alone could be reason to think of buying one.

Again people don't like "new" especially when they've been using "old" for a while. This is the case with respected instructors. They've spent years convincing themselves they have the best option. It's going to take time to undo that thinking.

Finally, the purpose of carrying is to stop an attack. Do you really believe that any of the rounds I listed above would fail to do that assuming the shooter was able to place them on target? 000 buck grouped tightly? With proper aim, that's gonna pack a wallop. Both 45 colt and acp are proven rounds. Seen the wound channels for the special judge and governor Lehigh maximum expansion? Another fantastic option.

You don't have to use one but I don't understand the thought that it isn't a formidable self defense choice.




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The damn thing fires 45ACP and 45LC. Therefore it is a viable home defense gun with just that in mind. How many times have i said you can drive nails with the 45LC. It has a night sight on it as well, another home defense plus. It has the reliability of a smith and wesson revolver going for it, another home defense plus.

Leave 410 out of the discussion and the thing is still a viable home defense gun. End of story.
 
S&W Governor

Wow, what an interesting Revolver. With the two
Farms we own, I'm buying the Stainless Steel one.

Second; with so much gibberish going on about the
Revolver, I had to go back and re-read the original
post. We are off in the weeds.

Third; here in South Dakota, if we saw that man beating
a Horse like that, the S&W Governor would be a very
viable Weapon to take him out.

1) Do you feel it is a viable home defense weapon? Why
- Defiantly viable. Several different cartridges can be used
in one weapon.
2) What do you load it with? Specific rounds please.
- Remington or Winchester Buck Shot.
3) Do you feel you would not rely upon it as a home defense weapon? Why?
- Oh you know, every human and animal in the world is bullet
proof. Everything in the World is impervious to shot & bullets.

Laugh out Load
 
Mister X said:
I've seen a couple of ballistic tests and wasn't all that impressed. Are you saying the Governor is actually superior in this regard to most other options?

The snake gun quote was from Massad Ayoob. Most other instructors say similar. Are they all ignorant?

S&W maufactured the Governor because Taurus was raking in the money with the Judge. Nearly all of the die-hard advocates of these guns I've come across are neophytes.

Ballistics aren't everything and unless the Governor offers some substantial advantage in that area, what does it have going for it? Nothing, it is a very large, awkward, heavy, expensive snubnose revolver.

The Governor is large for CC, comparatively slow to draw and has poor accuracy and inherent weapon retention traits. For home defense, it has limited capacity and it's size prohibits it from being a 24/7 gun. It can't easily be slipped in a pocket like a J-Frame or comfortably worn at all times when around the house. If investigating a bump in the night, I almost always default to a enclosed hammer snub for it's extreme close-quarter advantages, but the Governor doesn't have those advantages. If someone is kicking in my door and I have a little more time and distance, I myself want a high capacity weapon.

For protecting my life and the lives of my family, I want what I determine to be the best tool for the job. So, what specifically does the Governor do better than anything else that makes it the best choice for defensive purposes?
Click to expand...

What is the FBI minimum penetration of gel at what distance? If not ballistic tests, what do you consider to be the most reliable assessment test of penetrataion?

Massad Ayoob can have his opinion, have you heard of Jerry Miculek's opinion of the Governor?

Watch the following ballistic videos again and again until you understand the relevance of these revolvers in terms of what the Governor/Taurus can do with Federal 000 Buckshot alone. I can supply specific ballistic tests for the Lehigh .45 Colt rounds designed specifically for this platform as well. The .410 shells are: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AmjsiXT0YM[/ame]

Ballistic Gelatin Results

So you are grossly misinformed.
 
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I dont own a Governor but would not criticize those who do. Looks like a great weapon for what it is:

1) fun at the range with 3 different ammo possibilities. Of the 3 ammo choices, .45acp has lots of relatively cheap ammo options which is a definite plus.
2) good hiking or woods gun for casual use as long as not in dangerous game country
3) good nightstand weapon
4) simple to operate for non-experts, elderly, not typical gun enthusiasts but who still want to be armed.

Whats not to like as long as you can accept the above or similar parameters? Not perfect for everything, but all gun choices involve compromises of some sort. I may get one someday if the opportunity arises.
 
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Gulfecho said:
What is the FBI minimum penetration of gel at what distance? If not ballistic tests, what do you consider to be the most reliable assessment test of penetrataion?

Massad Ayoob can have his opinion, have you heard of Jerry Miculek's opinion of the Governor?

Watch the following ballistic videos again and again until you understand the relevance of these revolvers in terms of what the Governor/Taurus can do with Federal 000 Buckshot alone. I can supply specific ballistic tests for the Lehigh .45 Colt rounds designed specifically for this platform as well. The .410 shells are: Terminal Ballistics Test (Part 2) .380 .410 Revolver & 12 gauge - YouTube

Ballistic Gelatin Results

So you are grossly misinformed.
Click to expand...

Like I previously stated, I'm not a ballistics experts, but I do know penetration is only part of the equation. You can often get massive penetration, but inadequate wound tracks. I'll still defer to those more knowledgeable who say they are not sufficient until someone can articulate why they are wrong.

I don't see why what Jerry Miculek has to says about it has any merit. He's a sportsman and exhibition shooter, not a self-defense expert. Plus he's an S&W employee.

You seemed completely focused on the ballistics of the Governor as if they are somehow superior to anything else available. Even if they are acceptable, there are still far better platforms available. My issues are more with the gun itself. And ballistics are not everything. A 12 gauge shotgun has far superior ballistics to my home defense combo of a S&W 642/Glock 17, but Force-on-Force training has convinced me that any long gun has extremely limited applications in my specific situation. So, even if the Governor was indeed an extremely powerful handgun shotgun with far better ballistics than anything I own, I still find fault in the gun itself.

There's nothing wrong with .45 ACP, but I don't like pistol caliber revolvers because of the moon-clip issue. There are just too many potential problems IMO whether or not you use them to consider a gun cut for moonclips suitable for defensive purposes. The concept is neat, but the reality falls flat.

.45 Colt is a serious round, but how many suitable personal defense handguns are chambered in it? Plus there are better choices if that's your caliber of choice for some reason, but .357/.38 special and the guns that fire them makes a lot more sense to me.

The fact remains that the Governor is massive for being a snub revolver. With guns this size, you usually get the benefit of a much longer barrel, but you trade that away with the ridiculously large cylinder to gain the ability to fire .410 shot shells which to me isn't an advantage at all.

All home defense scenarios are not going to be cases of a creeping late night intruder who has gained entry into your home coming down your hallway while you lie in wait in your bedroom. Many home invasions occur during daytime hours and are violently dynamic. They can happen when you are watching tv on the couch, eating dinner, step out to get the mail, take out the trash, walk the dog etc. These would all be reactive close-quarter situations and the Governor lacks the ECQ advantages that an enclosed hammer J-frame does. I have no issues slipping my 642 in my pocket and having it available at all times, but can you say the same about the Governor? It's size is so prohibitive that it actually isn't very versatile at all. And consider that you might be seperated from other family members with the intruder(s) between you and your family.

Even if you are willing to carry it at home, it's slow to access and offers relatively poor close-quarter handling and inherent weapon retention. If relegated to a "nightstand gun", I would much rather have a more shootable, much higher capacity weapon. Why limit yourself to simply viable when there are much better options.

Concealed Carry Tactics to Neutralize a Home Invasion

...
 
Everything in choosing a handgun is a compromise. The Governor isnt anything different from that in that it isnt perfect, but it does several things reasonably well.

In an ideal world I would be able to carry my:
1) .357 or 44 mag for power
2) glock 19 or even the Glock 26 for capacity
3) .380 for concealibility
4) S&W 642 for concealibility and dependability
5) Glock 21 for .45acp power and high capacity
6) other options too many to list

But since I cant conceal 5 or more handguns at once, which do I choose? Of course I choose based on my circumstances and what I'll be doing on any given day. They all have their place.

And don't forget the people who totally scoff at dinosaurs like us for carrying the "outdated" revolver of ANY type or style when they argue that "so many better and more modern options exist." They wouldn't be caught carrying a lowly S&W 642, which I happen to carry almost daily.

Everything is a compromise- dont like a Governor (or anything else) simply dont get one and get what you like.
 
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Lee's Landing Billy said:
We have shot every commercially available .410 load made here at 10 yards. The Federal Premium made for handguns has 4 .36 caliber copper plated buckshot stacked one on top of each other. Out of 3 guns with over a dozen people shooting they will consistently shoot a "group or pattern" of no more than 5 inches. Assuming you get penetration, and I have NO data on that, 4 .36 balls hitting at once from 10 yards into a 5 inch circle on your target should get anything's full attention.
Click to expand...

Which tells me that inside normal self defense and certainly with in a home, you need some shooting ability to get a solid hit, even with the wonder of 4 pieces of buck shot. I'll take one of my 44 specials or 45 acps keep it well with in your 5" spread and I will get penetration.

I am not totally against these shot pistols, but I think way to many think that because it is firing shot that "you can't miss and and a hit." Thinking its for the untrained, those who don't have time for a lot of practice, etc. Just point it and pull the trigger. All wrong. I am sure its way cheaper to practice with slugs that shot shells and if you do enough to keep your shots in a 5 inch pattern you'll go as well or better with an ordinary hand gun.

Hey, its a shotgun revolver! Maybe a poor one with bird shot and with buck its just a 380 that fire 4 shots at once. It will work if you do your part. Your choice. I pick a real revolver will do my part. Time has proven the 44s and 45s. Jury is still way out on 4 pieces of buck shot from a handgun.
 
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Why does everyone assume it's 4 pellets of buckshot. The Hornady rounds in mine are 41 caliber slug followed by two 32 caliber balls. The 41 caliber slug is dead on point to aim. So tell me again what's wrong?

Sent from my Pixel XL 128
 
A 115 gr .41 slug at 850 fps is what's wrong.

Edit: I should have said,

A keyholing 115 gr .41 slug at 850 fps is what's wrong.

NRA tests showed the bullet was not stabilized.
 
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comiskeybum said:
Why does everyone assume it's 4 pellets of buckshot. The Hornady rounds in mine are 41 caliber slug followed by two 32 caliber balls. The 41 caliber slug is dead on point to aim. So tell me again what's wrong?

Sent from my Pixel XL 128
Click to expand...

With such a short barrel there's just not much energy behind any of those projectiles, and your gun is capable of handling ammunition with a far better track record of incapacitation.

I'm not telling you how to load your own gun, it's your life. But you could get the same round count from a Glock 17 or M&P9 and still have a more effective, more accurate cartridge, with less recoil and faster reloads to boot!
 
Mister X said:
Like I previously stated, I'm not a ballistics experts, but I do know penetration is only part of the equation. You can often get massive penetration, but inadequate wound tracks. I'll still defer to those more knowledgeable who say they are not sufficient until someone can articulate why they are wrong.

I don't see why what Jerry Miculek has to says about it has any merit. He's a sportsman and exhibition shooter, not a self-defense expert. Plus he's an S&W employee.

You seemed completely focused on the ballistics of the Governor as if they are somehow superior to anything else available. Even if they are acceptable, there are still far better platforms available. My issues are more with the gun itself. And ballistics are not everything. A 12 gauge shotgun has far superior ballistics to my home defense combo of a S&W 642/Glock 17, but Force-on-Force training has convinced me that any long gun has extremely limited applications in my specific situation. So, even if the Governor was indeed an extremely powerful handgun shotgun with far better ballistics than anything I own, I still find fault in the gun itself.

There's nothing wrong with .45 ACP, but I don't like pistol caliber revolvers because of the moon-clip issue. There are just too many potential problems IMO whether or not you use them to consider a gun cut for moonclips suitable for defensive purposes. The concept is neat, but the reality falls flat.

.45 Colt is a serious round, but how many suitable personal defense handguns are chambered in it? Plus there are better choices if that's your caliber of choice for some reason, but .357/.38 special and the guns that fire them makes a lot more sense to me.

The fact remains that the Governor is massive for being a snub revolver. With guns this size, you usually get the benefit of a much longer barrel, but you trade that away with the ridiculously large cylinder to gain the ability to fire .410 shot shells which to me isn't an advantage at all.

All home defense scenarios are not going to be cases of a creeping late night intruder who has gained entry into your home coming down your hallway while you lie in wait in your bedroom. Many home invasions occur during daytime hours and are violently dynamic. They can happen when you are watching tv on the couch, eating dinner, step out to get the mail, take out the trash, walk the dog etc. These would all be reactive close-quarter situations and the Governor lacks the ECQ advantages that an enclosed hammer J-frame does. I have no issues slipping my 642 in my pocket and having it available at all times, but can you say the same about the Governor? It's size is so prohibitive that it actually isn't very versatile at all. And consider that you might be seperated from other family members with the intruder(s) between you and your family.

Even if you are willing to carry it at home, it's slow to access and offers relatively poor close-quarter handling and inherent weapon retention. If relegated to a "nightstand gun", I would much rather have a more shootable, much higher capacity weapon. Why limit yourself to simply viable when there are much better options.

Concealed Carry Tactics to Neutralize a Home Invasion

...
Click to expand...

The answer to the first question I posed regarding FBI ballistics testing is 12 inches of penetration within ballistic gel at 10 feet and wound channel evidence that is somewhat subjective? Does the Governor deliver on these parameters with mere .410 buckshot loads? I have demonstrated that it does. Did you watch the ballistic tests? What have you demonstrated as evidence that it has not?

Is the Governor the best in every shooting situation, of course not. Can it deliver effectively in most home defense, close quarter situations with .410, .45 highbred colt rounds and .45 acp, of course it can.

Additionally, please provide your source that Jerry Miculek is an employee of Smith and Wesson.
 
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Gulfecho said:
Additionally, please provide your source that Jerry Miculek is an employee of Smith and Wesson.
Click to expand...

"Along with sponsoring a variety of firearm sporting events across the country, Smith & Wesson is especially proud to sponsor the successful careers of Doug Koenig, Jerry Miculek and Julie Goloski Golob, three of the world's most legendary shooters, and a full team of talented men, women and juniors using Smith & Wesson firearms."

Team Smith & Wesson | Smith & Wesson

Not to mention the 625JM....
 
Mister X said:
I have no issues slipping my 642 in my pocket and having it available at all times, but can you say the same about the Governor? It's size is so prohibitive that it actually isn't very versatile at all.



...
Click to expand...
Where's the gun?

69753d6240eeb96e15c4574051436254.jpg

What about now?
092486d68d232f9747ea55fffe7fe369.jpg

You can see it tucks in a pocket quite nicely.
a9b18b30ab57576760f9d3a5c910cbc4.jpg





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