The unavoidable gun fight. Are you confident with your handgun choice?

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Dump1567

Dump1567

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This is an incident that happened in a Pawn Shop I was in a few weeks ago. It just as likely could have happened at any store you entered. There's only one way out. Take out the shooter or die. Are you confident and proficient with your carry choice to get out alive?

To give a summary based on the article, it sounds like the shooter entered the pawn shop & fired a round into the air. The armed clerk working the counter grabbed his gun to engage the shooter and was killed. Some shopper who was in the store hiding after the shooting started was shot in the head as the shooter left with some stolen guns. The shooter and getaway driver were later arrested and charged with murder.

New details about moments before, after deadly shooting at Tucson pawn shop

As I mentioned, I was in this Pawn shop a few weeks ago looking at guns. It isn't in the nicest area, but most Pawn shops aren't. And Pawn shops in my area, do have some good deals on used handguns. But this could have happened in any business. When you come through the door of this place, to the left is the gun counter. So, this is going to put you in the corner of the store and your back to the door. You probably wouldn't know what was happening until you heard a shot and turned around. I don't know if anyone else was in this shop during the shooting, but it doesn't sound like it. Every time I've been there, they've had at least two people working. Maybe someone went to lunch?

This is one of those situations where you can't avoid a gun fight. Do nothing, and you're still shot in the head. Sure, stay out of bad neighborhoods and pawn shops. But as I stated, this could have happened in any store. The chances of this situation are slim, but I missed it by a few weeks, so you never know. And this is why we carry.

And now it comes down to your carry choice. I know a lot of people like their small low cap pocket carry guns. But if you were in this situation, do you feel confident and proficient with your choice of carry gun? Situations like this really make you think and evaluate your carry choice, training, mindset, & tactics.
 
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Dump1567 said:
And now it comes down to your carry choice. I know a lot of people like their small low cap pocket carry guns. But if you were in this situation, do you feel confident and proficient with your choice of carry gun? Situations like this really make you think and evaluate your carry choice, training, mindset, & tactics.
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Given your scenario and the knowledge I would probably get killed whether or not I acted, it might not matter what I was carrying or how good I was with it. But, given the opportunity to conceal myself until I could act, I feel confident I could hit the target within the confines of a small store at least once or twice with a full magazine, and my usual carry is a .40 cal 1911.
 
Violent criminals, doing what violent criminals do.

The customer in the store who tried to conceal himself was apparently shot at extremely close range. The news articles I saw didn't indicate whether the deceased customer was armed (it's AZ, right?), but it would seem not?

Francisco Vejar, a customer in the store, also took cover on the west end of the store. Maldonado noticed Vejar while Maldonado was removing guns from a display case. Maldonado reached over the counter and shot Vejar in the head, the report said.
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www.kgun9.com

UPDATE: Suspects in pawn shop shooting found via GPS in Phoenix area

One is dead and another has life-threatening injuries following a shooting at a Northside pawn shop.
www.kgun9.com www.kgun9.com

2 innocents dead from GSW's at the hands of criminals.

The store manager heard the gunfire and went out to his car to retrieve a gun. Guess he didn't keep one in his office, or wear one.

In answer to the OP's question, yes, I'm confident in the functionality of the retirement weapons I carry. If I wasn't I wouldn't carry them. Size, caliber and capacity of them? Not critical factors to me for their role as retirement concealed weapons. Might be for some other folks, though. It is what it is. Neither capacity nor caliber are really suitable substitutions for mindset and skillset when chaos erupts, but that's just my personal opinion.

Then, of course, there's the ability to make good decisions and exercise good judgment when everything around you has gone to hell. It's not the gun that may save you. It's what you are able and willing to do with it that may save you.

Today my choice of a retirement/LEOSA weapon is a J-frame. Specifically, one of my M&P 340's. It's the first one I bought, back in '05 (from the first production run, I was told by the factory). It's been used as an armorer 'practice' gun after my armorer class, and a range beater as well as an off-duty and later retirement weapon. It's seen a few cases of ammunition fired through it for range work (drills, quals, etc). A couple hundred Magnum rounds, but primarily +P and some occasional standard pressure Ball loads (if available in the range inventory). I carry +P in it.
 
My mindset, tactics and weapon choice are minimally affected by these types of stories. I'm about as prepared as I'm going to reasonably be almost all of the time. I adapt as I can, when I can. It is possible to be at your highest skill and awareness level and still come up short. Fate can be a fickle female dog that laughs at your preparations. I can't control all factors. I do what I can within reason and live my life. Awareness and avoidance pays dividends in the urban (and rural) jungle, but it's not 100% effective. For myself, I don't care what deals an urban pawn shop has on any merchandize. I wouldn't go there. I might walk in on a robbery.
 
Ed4032 said:
I don't carry for a gun battle. Just to get out of where I shouldn't be. I call the guys that train and are equipped to do it. They have friends who will join them.
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This 100% for me ^^^^. Would I engage an armed suspect to possibly protect others? Possibly. That would depend on a lot of factors too numerous to list.
 
Dump1567 said:
This is an incident that happened in a Pawn Shop I was in a few weeks ago. It just as likely could have happened at any store you entered. There's only one way out. Take out the shooter or die. Are you confident and proficient with your carry choice to get out alive?

To give a summary based on the article, it sounds like the shooter entered the pawn shop & fired a round into the air. The armed clerk working the counter grabbed his gun to engage the shooter and was killed. Some shopper who was in the store hiding after the shooting started was shot in the head as the shooter left with some stolen guns. The shooter and getaway driver were later arrested and charged with murder.

New details about moments before, after deadly shooting at Tucson pawn shop

As I mentioned, I was in this Pawn shop a few weeks ago looking at guns. It isn't in the nicest area, but most Pawn shops aren't. And Pawn shops in my area, do have some good deals on used handguns. But this could have happened in any business. When you come through the door of this place, to the left is the gun counter. So, this is going to put you in the corner of the store and your back to the door. You probably wouldn't know what was happening until you heard a shot and turned around. I don't know if anyone else was in this shop during the shooting, but it doesn't sound like it. Every time I've been there, they've had at least two people working. Maybe someone went to lunch?

This is one of those situations where you can't avoid a gun fight. Do nothing, and you're still shot in the head. Sure, stay out of bad neighborhoods and pawn shops. But as I stated, this could have happened in any store. The chances of this situation are slim, but I missed it by a few weeks, so you never know. And this is why we carry.

And now it comes down to your carry choice. I know a lot of people like their small low cap pocket carry guns. But if you were in this situation, do you feel confident and proficient with your choice of carry gun? Situations like this really make you think and evaluate your carry choice, training, mindset, & tactics.
Click to expand...
Hello I am 24 work at Kentucky fried chicken in the process of going to EMT school, sometimes I worry as a work night shift living in a small drug overrun town. What puts my mind at ease is training anytime my mind runs amuck with these scenarios I take them to the range practice drawing from concealment, reloads on the move, and most of all shot placement as I have 5 shots 'sw642' then a backup 5 on a speed strip. I think it's also important to carry a tourniquet and Israeli style bandage on your edc as most gun fights you take the risk of being injured a smaller fixed blade knife resides in my off hand cargo pocket. Moral of the story I feel comfortable with my 642.
 
I don't get all these 'are YOU upping your carry??' posts lately - I feel quite fine dealing with meth heads with the same revolver on my hip that's been there for the last decade and don't see that changing unless I somehow become Serpico and need to take on "just a battalion".

I'm sorry guys, but having grown up in one of the worst cities in America and generally lived in other examples of 'the worst'...it's still not the jungles of 'Nam or the deserts of the Mid East out there. This whole carrying more/bigger/extra rounds/magazine thing is just absurd to me - carry what you know and are trained with, (and hopefully accurate with), not something you feel reassured by because it'll kill an elephant.
 
Brush2000 said:
Hello I am 24 work at Kentucky fried chicken in the process of going to EMT school, sometimes I worry as a work night shift living in a small drug overrun town. What puts my mind at ease is training anytime my mind runs amuck with these scenarios I take them to the range practice drawing from concealment, reloads on the move, and most of all shot placement as I have 5 shots 'sw642' then a backup 5 on a speed strip. I think it's also important to carry a tourniquet and Israeli style bandage on your edc as most gun fights you take the risk of being injured a smaller fixed blade knife resides in my off hand cargo pocket. Moral of the story I feel comfortable with my 642.
Click to expand...
My $.02, no one else's money or stuff is worth me getting in a gun fight, to include an ambulance or narcs or anything else. Shoes I can run in and the ability to say "we're cool bro" go a lot farther than anything else.
 
Remember the old saying back when revolvers were king

"If you cant get er done with six" something something cant' remember,
Guess I need to carry my SW 460 in my shorts But it only holds 5:eek:
 
Whenever I read stories like this the last thing on my mind is hardware. I wonder how I would *behave* in a similar situation.

I've been enough stressful situations to know that one's decision-making processes are badly compromised. As a result, I try to make such decisions well ahead of time. With full knowledge that all plans go to hell at first contact, I figure the more thinking I do in advance the less I'll have to do when bullets are flying.

If I am in a retail establishment and hear gunshots or see a gunman, my plan is to head deeper into the store and find the back door. If it is locked for some reason I hope to find some cover and lay in wait for the opportunity to make all five of my shots count.
 
Decades ago, long before it became Californicated, a similar situation happened in Colorado. A guy walked into a gun shop and pulled a pistol on the clerk with the intention of robbing the place.
Unfortunately for him the clerk and the owner, who was also behind the counter, and several customers that happened to be there, including an off duty LEO, were armed and pulled their handguns out to cover the would be criminal who instantly dropped his pistol and put his hands up.
It was the only smart thing he did that day according to the judge that later sentenced him.
Of course in the gun shop scenario all the people there were firearms people and a number of them were armed while in the pawn shop scenario apparently the manager was in the back and unarmed at the time so there were only two people present when things went sideways and only the clerk was armed.
But even if there had been more people present generally speaking most pawn shop customers aren't firearms people or armed.
Being that I walk with difficulty and can't run at all if I'd been in the pawn shop at the time I would have done the same thing that the customer did, drop and conceal as best I could but since I live in Wyoming where carrying openly or concealed is legal and fairly common I would have also drawn whatever handgun I happened to be carrying at the time, usually a .357 mag revolver but sometimes a 45acp pistol, and feel confidant that I would have been able to put rounds into the perp.
Would I have gotten through this alive? Don't know but I would have done my best to take the perp along with me.
 
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Rocketmedic40 said:
My $.02, no one else's money or stuff is worth me getting in a gun fight, to include an ambulance or narcs or anything else. Shoes I can run in and the ability to say "we're cool bro" go a lot farther than anything else.
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Most definitely I would never defend my workplaces money or food only my own life I believe in de-escalation and flee if given the opportunity
 
rockquarry said:
People eaten up with concealed carry live and breathe these "what if" imaginary situations. That's unrealistic extremism, far beyond reasonable preparedness.
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Apparently the situation in the opening post really happened so it's not imaginary.

In your opinion, what constitutes reasonable preparedness?
 
Ed4032 said:
I don't carry for a gun battle. Just to get out of where I shouldn't be. I call the guys that train and are equipped to do it. They have friends who will join them.
Click to expand...
What do you carry for? Calling the cops will not be an option if you are staring at a bad guy with a gun but if you manage to accomplish that, then they will get there in maybe 5 - 10 minutes... The cops have arrived and are outside and now you are a hostage… Now what?
 
Smoke said:
Isn't that kind of the bottom line?

FWIW I don't buy guns from pawn shops specifically because I know the quality of guns I've sold to pawn shops.
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I don't do business with pawn shops simply because of the amount of time I've spent recovering stolen property from them. The best pawn shops are very careful about the items they allow and require the seller to provide real identification. That is assuredly not true for all - any burglary investigator can name the slimy ones in their areas pretty quickly.

A burglar/fence I interviewed told me 'his' pawn shop told him not to bring stuff likely to have recorded serial numbers or having unusual value, as those items could be identified unmistakably and he would lose money.
 
I was thinking about this yesterday. When something like this happens I wonder how long it takes people to process what is happening. And secondly, to react? I would imagine there would be hesitation from some. Afraid what is happening isn't what they think. Afraid to shoot because you can't take that bullet back. Some might think " am I really seeing this".
 
Smoke said:
Apparently the situation in the opening post really happened so it's not imaginary.

In your opinion, what constitutes reasonable preparedness?
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Yes, that happened. But all following that incident have not.

I don't know how you can further break down "reasonable preparedness" in terms that are simpler. Having one handgun that you are very familiar with is a start which includes being able to shoot well at varying distances. Ammo matters little if you become proficient; just shoot the ammo that works best for you and that's not necessarily what the YouDupers recommend. Far less emphasis on gunfighting, second guns, lots of ammo, multiple armed bad guys, shooting through walls, cars, bullet proof vests, etc. and other preposterous and incredibly unlikely imagined schemes.

A law enforcement or military role is not what civilian concealed carry is about, but it's almost impossible for some to limit their imaginations to such a parameter. I guess it's boring to do so, hence the extremist and unrealistic attitude toward civilian concealed carry.
 
rockquarry said:
Yes, that happened. But all following that incident have not.

I don't know how you can further break down "reasonable preparedness" in terms that are simpler. Having one handgun that you are very familiar with is a start which includes being able to shoot well at varying distances. Ammo matters little if you become proficient; just shoot the ammo that works best for you and that's not necessarily what the YouDupers recommend. Far less emphasis on gunfighting, second guns, lots of ammo, multiple armed bad guys, shooting through walls, cars, bullet proof vests, etc. and other preposterous and incredibly unlikely imagined schemes.

A law enforcement or military role is not what civilian concealed carry is about, but it's almost impossible for some to limit their imaginations to such a parameter. I guess it's boring to do so, hence the extremist and unrealistic attitude toward civilian concealed carry.
Click to expand...
I most frequently carry a glock 19 and two reloads. I chose that because it's the same gun I carried at work.

I carry it because that's what I already have set up. I carry it with no expectation that I'm ever going to need the second and certainly not the third magazine.

As I said that's what I carry because that's what I had set up.

20250615_132631.jpg
At the end of next month when I live here I fully intend to carry the exact same thing

Is that reasonable?

If it's not reasonable in your opinion what is?
Screenshot_20250626_125809_Samsung Internet.jpg

What can I carry that would meet your approval?

Screenshot_20250626_130102_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
My "close to the house" FFL is a pawnshop; I get all my Palmetto State stuff through them as "preferred FFL." The layout is "L shaped", nothing over say 50 ft max. I'd like to think that after the perp has killed 2 victims prior that I can unholster and make lethal hits before becoming corpse #3. What do I know, I'm an old man. Joe
 
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