Third Model with Military Frame Question

[gstactical]

This gun appears to be made on a military frame and assembled as a third model commercial .44 hand ejector. Serial number, however, appears too low for the third model in the 17000 range. Unfortunately refinished with wrong stocks. My question is how did this gun acquire such a low serial number? I understand some military frames were used for commercial guns, but I would have expected the serial to be in the 30000+ range. Does this make sense?

 

[Toyman]

3rd model barrel installed on left over military frame. Check for serial number in the barrel shroud, should be same as on the frame.

 

[Kinman]

Looks like a proper match to me...curious

 

[murphydog]

Need more details, such as if there is a service date on the left lower grip frame. The star in the yoke cutout suggests there may be.

 

[gstactical]

I do not see any dates on the grip frame. The serials match on frame, barrel, cylinder, and ejector star.

I was puzzled why the serial is in the commercial second model range. Or is this a duplicate serial in the military range that was stamped on the other parts when the gun was assembled?

 

[Muley Gil]

You have a 2nd Model .44 Special that has been fitted with a 3rd Model barrel.

Several have shown up here on the Forum over the years.

 

[Retired W4]

The eagle head over S2 came after May 1918 (the new Inspection Division) and the H is Frank Hosmer, who was also an inspector at Colt. From C.Pate, pg. 48.

Barrels and cylinders were also marked throughout production, so if yours is not so marked it would indicate civilian parts on a military frame.

 

[22hipower]

Later 3rd Model barrel and cylinder on a 2nd Model frame seems the only way the gun could exist as it is. However, given the barrel, cylinder and other parts with SN stamps matching the frame isn't it likely that the factory did the work? Although the apparent lack of service work stamps is odd. A letter is probably only going to show it as a 2nd Model but perhaps other interesting information would surface. I think I'd letter it. Interesting gun.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[steelslaver]

Maybe the factory found some 2nd model frames and assembled them using 3rd model parts.

They did it with the triple locks making 455s, why wouldn't they do it with other frames?

 

[gstactical]

This was my thought too about the factory finding an older unused serialized frame, then building the gun with matching serials on other parts. The left side of frame does have the typical small S&W crest like commercial guns of the time.

Thanks! I am mainly a Colt guy, so decided to ask about this gun from people here who may know more than me.

 

[22hipower]

This was my thought too about the factory finding an older unused serialized frame, then building the gun with matching serials on other parts. The left side of frame does have the typical small S&W crest like commercial guns of the time.

Thanks! I am mainly a Colt guy, so decided to ask about this gun from people here who may know more than me.

Or, the owner of the 2nd Model sent it in and asked for a replacement barrel, and what the factory had on hand was the 3rd Model version. I'd letter it and hope something interesting turned up from the Historical Foundation. Should be some service marks/dates in that scenario though.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[gstactical]

Or, the owner of the 2nd Model sent it in and asked for a replacement barrel, and what the factory had on hand was the 3rd Model version. I'd letter it and hope something interesting turned up from the Historical Foundation. Should be some service marks/dates in that scenario though.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

No dates or other noticeable marks on the grip frame, no star on the butt.

Would this gun have shipped with the lanyard loop as a commercial gun?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

No dates or other noticeable marks on the grip frame, no star on the butt.

Would this gun have shipped with the lanyard loop as a commercial gun?

IMO, it shipped from the factory as a new gun. Lanyard loops were pretty common, even on commercial guns.

 

[2152hq]

The ser# on the bbl and that on the frame were stamp with different #ing sets of stamps.
The '7' has the most noticable difference, then the '1'. But the other figures do as well, however slight.
I've taken into consideration that the # on the butt has been polished over and that in the bbl ejector rod cut has not. Plus that the one surface is flat, the other slightly concave.

Just an observation,,I do not know if that throws the thoughts in one direction or the other as to how the gun came to be in the configuration that it is.
I don't know at what point in factory build or Service such parts would have been #'d.

 

[Muley Gil]

This was my thought too about the factory finding an older unused serialized frame, then building the gun with matching serials on other parts. The left side of frame does have the typical small S&W crest like commercial guns of the time.

Thanks! I am mainly a Colt guy, so decided to ask about this gun from people here who may know more than me.

That's because it IS a commercial gun. It was built on a 1917 frame that the US government made S&W buy back after the end of WW I. S&W applied the emblem to the left side of the frame and serial numbered it in the N frame series of numbers, rather than the 1917 series.