Thoughts on this 38spl recipe?

[RGVshooter]

I was bored this morning so I pulled out my can of TiteGroup and saw some recipes on the front label and saw a load for 38 special. It called for a cast 158gr LSWC, 3.8gr titegroup and a COL of 1.475".

So I did just that. I primed up a small batch of nickle plated +P remington brass I had just cleaned and loaded up to those specs however the only bullets I had were 158 gr. Hornady lead semi wadcutters. I know cast bullets are a little bit more harder than lead Hornady bullets, or are they the same? The recipe on the label said a estimated 920fps.

Now this load is almost identical to the load out of my Hornady reloading manual for 357 magnum. In fact it calls for the same 3.8grs for titegroup. Which i used a lot in my 4" 686. That load is no where near 357 magnum power. I'm guessing that's because of the lead bullet. To prevent leading of the barrel which I believe can occur if the velocities go over 1000fps or something around there.

Sooooo. what do you guys think? Is 3.8grs titegroup under a 158gr Hornady LSWC pushing it? Personally I think I'm fine, i just made a batch of +P's. lol.

 

[arjay]

That's gonna lead like crazy lol,but I'd shoot em anyway
I've done the same with Unique.Hornady and Speers lead bullets are swaged rather than cast and are very soft.Loaded to around 750 fps works well though
Edit: Pick up some copper choreboy at the grocery store,wrap a few strands around a bore brush and it will scrub the lead out of the barrel quickly and easily

 

[Rule3]

Per Hodgdon the 3.2 to 3.8 of TG is for a 158 fr HARD CAST Bulet

Hornady bullets are soft swaged which will probably lead.

Adjust your load accordingly.

 

[Carrier]

I load a ton of Hornady 148 HBWC, 158 SWC and Speer 158 SWC and as long as I keep them under 800 fps they are fine. But like said expect leading. You might try dropping that charge down around 3 grains and try it next time.

 

[RGVshooter]

Well, I loaded up 12 of them, all in nickel plated brass to keep them apart from the others. I don't think they're gonna blow up my 686 but I'll shoot 'em and keep and eye on the barrel to see if they're leading up. I never intended to load up hundreds of these anyway. It was more of an experimental batch than anything else. For the recipe for my 357 mag's, it called for 3.8grs titegroup and a 158gr LSWC for a estimated 850fps. Those I've loaded hundreds and shot them all out of my 686 and the barrel was surprisingly very clean with hardly any lead buildup. The OAL of my 357's is 1.590", the 38 specials are at 1.475". Using the exact same powder charge and exact same bullet I'm guessing the pressure might be slightly higher on the 38 special thus giving me that extra 100fps.
I think the loads are fine, but I will run a rem oil soaked patch down the barrel first and buy a new bore brush on the way home. Lol.

 

[Pisgah]

They may surprise you. I've run the dry-lubed Hornady swaged bullets up to 1000 fps with minimal leading, and up to 1200 fps with a supplementary light application of Liquid Alox gives leading so light I can brush it out with two passes of a dry brush.

 

[RGVshooter]

They may surprise you. I've run the dry-lubed Hornady swaged bullets up to 1000 fps with minimal leading, and up to 1200 fps with a supplementary light application of Liquid Alox gives leading so light I can brush it out with two passes of a dry brush.

My Hornady 9th edition reloading manual shows 357 magnum loads using this exact same bullet at max fps of up to 950. So to me that shows that there will be min leading at those velocities. The recipe that I used according to Hodgdon will send these bullets off to around 920fps. I've read up somewhere that the Hornady prelubed lead bullets are good up to a max of 1100fps. But I think that's pushing them to the max. I agree. I think my 38spl loads are fine.

 

[joeintexas]

I load that same bullet with Titegroup but only go 3.4 grains. arjay is probably right, that is a pretty hot load, max according to Hodgon. It should be safe enough to shoot though if your revolver is in good shape.

 

[RGVshooter]

I load that same bullet with Titegroup but only go 3.4 grains. arjay is probably right, that is a pretty hot load, max according to Hodgdon. It should be safe enough to shoot though if your revolver is in good shape.

It's a relatively new 4" 686-6 that i will be using for bowling pin matches.

If you guys honestly feel that 3.8 might be too hot I can always pull the bullets & back off the charge to 3.2gr or maybe 3.5grs tops. Personally I think I inadvertently loaded FBI +P loads lol.

 

[oddshooter]

You're fine.

The 686 will easily handle that recipe. Lead is a different issue.

I would suggest lube for leading if you have any doubts. Someone suggested ALOX or similar which is easy and quick to smear.

If your firearm is within specs, your should be able to hit 1200fps without leading.

Enjoy and let us know the velocity if you have a chrono.

Prescut

 

[RGVshooter]

You're fine.

The 686 will easily handle that recipe. Lead is a different issue.

I would suggest lube for leading if you have any doubts. Someone suggested ALOX or similar which is easy and quick to smear.

If your firearm is within specs, your should be able to hit 1200fps without leading.

Enjoy and let us know the velocity if you have a chrono.

Prescut

I do have a chrono. I'll shoot these & come back with a range report.

 

[reddog81]

The 686 should handle 50,000+ 38 special +P loads with out any issue. The trigger will wear out, the cylinder notches will peen, and many other maladies will happen before you wear out a 686 shooting hot 38 special loads.

If you were shooting these in a M&P from the 1920's I'd recommend dialing the powder back some, but a modern L frame gun can handle these loads.

 

[Rule3]

It's not a question of the gun handling the load, it is if the load is too much for the soft bullet.

Heck Hornady#8 does not even list Tite Group. They list many other powders but the max velocity is 850 fps.

 

[rockquarry]

A soft lead bullet, swaged or cast, won't lead the bore IF the fit is right. With a commercial bullet, good chance the fit won't be right, but it's possible.

The common response is to say that a soft bullet will lead the bore if driven at anything more than low to moderate velocity. There are always exceptions, but such statement are generally untrue with a properly fitted bullet.

 

[captainjohnsofd]

I have used this 3.8 gr of TG and 158 LSWC for years. Warm but not hot in my experience....My Model 10 and 19 love this load. You will too.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

With my cast SWC which comes out at 154gr,this is exactly the load I use.I've chronoed it at 902fps out of a 6 1/2bbl.I use in in all my .38s,even my alu frame model 37(of course,it won't get the same vel out of the stubby bbl but still is a potent load;I intend to chrono it next summer).
You might get or not leading with the soft swaged bullet but not because of the softness but rather because of poor fit.If it does lead and you still want to use them,buy a bottle of liquid Alox(Lee,LS Stuff) and shake them in a baggie bag or in an empty margarine plastic bowl(what I do)aprox 100 at a time.Spread them on a waxed paper and let dry.It'll probably solve part if not all of your leading problem.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's a relatively new 4" 686-6 that i will be using for bowling pin matches.

If you guys honestly feel that 3.8 might be too hot I can always pull the bullets & back off the charge to 3.2gr or maybe 3.5grs tops. Personally I think I inadvertently loaded FBI +P loads lol.

That might be on the high side for a standard .38 Special load but not a +P load and certainly fine when shot from a .357 Magnum revolver. If it were too hot Hodgdon would not have listed it in their standard pressure load data but they did. The pressure they list is not high.

When there is only one powder charge listed in data it's usually the max charge. You are supposed to drop back 10% for the starting charge weight.

 

[Rule3]

So I did just that. I primed up a small batch of nickle plated +P remington brass

As a side note. Using brass marked +P means nothing. It is the same as regular 38 special brass. Just marked as an ID of what the orginal factory load was.

 

[reddog81]

It's not a question of the gun handling the load, it is if the load is too much for the soft bullet.

If that's the case, then it's dependent on how well the bullet fits the cylinder throats and how well they funnel the bullet into the forcing cone. Too large or too small cylinder throats will cause problems no matter what type of bullet used. A rough bore will lead much quicker than a smooth bore. A bore constriction will also cause problems.

The only way to see if your bullets will work is to test them in your gun. 100 random people could say they will or won't work but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Rule3]

Yes, size matters, gun matters and what time the cows come home is important.

For what it's worth the BHN of Swagged bullets (Hornady is around 8-10) if that helps or means anything.