Thumb Breaks: Good or Bad?

[sigp220.45]

I like a thumb-break, but for bumming around in the woods I prefer a flap holster. Keeps the gunk out and the gun in.

 

[flagman1776]

I admitt to being old school but I like a thumb break for a revolver / belt holster both IWB & OWB. I am fond of the Avenger style holsters for semi-autos... Bianchi had a flip off loop that engaged the tang of SA pistols as the thumb traced up to grip. I hand made a few holsters with adjustable tension which can work very well.

 

[smoothshooter]

I’ve got another holster question, guys! What are your thoughts on thumb break holsters?

I’m looking for a good open carry holster for my Beretta 92A1 with mounted Streamlight flashlight, but there are few options. One is the Bianchi Model 140 Reveal (pictured above) and it seems to have good reviews.

I know many old lawmen here probably used thumb breaks in the past, as well as many other people here. Do you think this is a serviceable and good method of retention still today? Do you think it would work alright for an open carry holster? I’ll only be carrying on my own property and that of my friends and family, or in the woods or desert areas. Not in town or in public.

Thanks!

-Jay

That's quite a chunk of metal you're plannin' on packin' around there.

 

[rednichols]

I’ve got another holster question, guys! What are your thoughts on thumb break holsters?

I’m looking for a good open carry holster for my Beretta 92A1 with mounted Streamlight flashlight, but there are few options. One is the Bianchi Model 140 Reveal (pictured above) and it seems to have good reviews.

I know many old lawmen here probably used thumb breaks in the past, as well as many other people here. Do you think this is a serviceable and good method of retention still today? Do you think it would work alright for an open carry holster? I’ll only be carrying on my own property and that of my friends and family, or in the woods or desert areas. Not in town or in public.

Thanks!

-Jay

I was completely suckered into thinking only about thumb snaps . But be aware that with light-fitted pistols the big peril is with the trigger being exposed (hard to see in your pic unless one knows what is being examined) to fingers. Safariland has been experiencing HUGE problems with this; and Bianchi is another of Safariland's brands. Yes, I realize you've an M92 so this is FYI other users of that model you've shown.

 

[stansdds]

I prefer either a thumb break or trigger guard retention for OWB holsters.

 

[M29since14]

Mr. Nichols makes very good points. They are great for revolvers but I have never seen a thumbsnap holster that I considered correctly made for a 1911 carried cocked and locked. In that case, I prefer an open top holster, but I don’t really consider it ideal.

 

[Old cop]

Interesting... Was the snap on the outside instead of the inside (closes to the body)? Can't say I've ever had that issue, but then again, not every holster is the same or uses the same components..

These were issued holsters for our Model 10 snubs and the snap was close to the body and, IMHO, a bit too long which caused the problem. I was struggling w/a suspect making an arrest one night and almost lost the weapon. In those days there was little to no input from the user end when bulk equipment purchases were made.

 

[The_Truth]

Leather thumb breaks are awesome. I've got one for each and every one of my pistols, both semi-automatic and revolvers. Outside the waistband in a leather thumb break is my preferred method of carry no matter what I'm carrying. In addition, a nicely fitted leather pancake holster is going wear more consistently and evenly on a weapon. Some may even say a good honest carry wear patina from a leather holster is somewhat desirable, especially on an old blued revolver.

 

[Protected One]

Bad on automatics, good on DA revolvers. They were invented for the latter in the late 1950s and the thumb is down already for a natural release. For the automatics the thumb must be lifted high in an unnatural way; and on 1911s and other pistols with thumb safeties the very action of snapping one shut can switch the safety to off.

We labored with this at Bianchi throughout my time there; I think because we reckoned it had to be good to have a thumbsnap; but without realizing that the automatics are simply incompatible. I've learned since then to simply avoid them and that's easy because strapless is so popular nowadays; and I use a different design I call 'thumrake' that involves lifting the thumb upwards against the end of the strap.

Can you post a picture of a design using this "thumrake" that you speak of? Thanks.

Mr. Nichols makes very good points. They are great for revolvers but I have never seen a thumbsnap holster that I considered correctly made for a 1911 carried cocked and locked. In that case, I prefer an open top holster, but I don’t really consider it ideal.

I have a galco Miami Classic shoulder holster for a 1911 that seems to work perfectly.

 

[rednichols]

I carried a design like this while in uniform for a few years. The thumb snap can bump open w/an elbow or the arm of a chair when you sit down. It’s not something I’d be comfortable with unless worn under a cover garment.

The makers who were noted for making the inside tab too tall, were Safariland and Bruce Nelson. Safariland even made versions with the upright tab on the outside! Not the sorts of decisions one would expect from operators with professional reputations.

Safariland, on the outside

Bianchi (before my time there!)

Nelson, lower left (and often with a pointed tip)

 

[keith44spl]

I carried this'n...A thumb-break for 20 years. nary a problem.

.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I love to say this, it makes people so irritable:

.... I have never seen a thumbsnap holster that I considered correctly made for a 1911 carried cocked and locked. ........

That's because the 1911 is not supposed to be carried cocked and locked.

Seriously. Col. Jeff Cooper said it is the BEST way to carry a 1911 and that became gospel but that is not the point.

The 1911 was not designed to be carried cocked and locked but in Condition 2, a round chambered and hammer down. The spur hammer was of the earlier versions of the 1911, namely, the model of 1905, was to permit mounted troops to be able to cock the pistol against their pants legs without compromising the firing grip while at a gallop. The early models did not have a "thumb safety" because it was not needed but it was added later to assist in decocking while still mounted.

You can look that up.

Then the Army asked for the grip safety - and I think the reason was because the triggers were too light with cocked hammers. Not a good plan for Soldiers in the field, especially whilst in combat.

Soldiers were trained to carry in Condition 3 as far as I know. You Army veterans from days gone by can contradict me but the 1911s I saw in use back in the day were always in Condition 3.

I do believe the traditional double action is carried in Condition 2 as an offshoot of that early concept. With revolver-quality triggers for the first round you have removed the "unsafe to carry loaded" issue and then you fire and get back to single action. That is, I believe, the historical concept.

But I'm old, forgetful, maybe I am just dead wrong.

I await my education from the experts..............

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I like a thumb-break retention device as long as it is properly fitted to work positively without interference with the pistol's operating controls.

My experience with handguns began in the late 1960's, and that corresponded with the rise in popularity of thumb-break holsters. I have seen some very good designs, but I have also seen some that were clumsy at best.

I have never known who (or which company) originated the thumb-break concept, but I wish I did. Perhaps Red Nichols can enlighten us on the development and marketing of this innovation (which I consider to be significant).

 

[rednichols]

I have never known who (or which company) originated the thumb-break concept, but I wish I did. Perhaps Red Nichols can enlighten us on the development and marketing of this innovation (which I consider to be significant).

It's 'in the book': Holstory. The thumb snap was invented by Richard Bucheimer and Al Kippen with the patent assigned to J.M. Bucheimer in the late 1950s; and only a revolver is illustrated (I'm not suggesting that limited the patent to revolvers). JB has claimed to have invented it but that's obviously not the case with the patent filing predating his own entry into gun leather.

Previously these thumb releases were on the outside of the holster -- one is shown even in "Ed McGivern's Book" of 1938 -- and the difference is significant enough that when Elmer Keith reviewed Chic Gaylord's addition of it to Elmer's favourite scabbard of Chic's, he described its new position next to the body and gave it his blessing. A G&A column mention as I recall (complete copy in my files).

 

[M29since14]

I await my education from the experts..............

I can help you!! Carry your 1911 however you think best and accept responsibility for whatever happens! (I hereby surrender my expert’s license now. )

I think Uncle Sam’s How-to manual on the 1911 mostly indicates that it’s safer to use the safety lock than fumbling around with the hammer. Makes sense to me. Otherwise, as you say, Condition Three or Four is specified. I guess Uncle Sam only rarely employed expert pistoleros, so his caution is understandable.

All that said, I still maintain I’ve never been completely satisfied with the production-line thumbsnap holsters I’ve had for the 1911. (Unfortunately, I’ve never had a nice handmade one.) I’d think it no great stress to make one for the 92, whether you carry it flipper-up or flipper-down. The Bianchi holster shown looks good, but I know nothing about carrying a gun with light mounted. Sorry for the unnecessary 1911-drift.

 

[kbm6893]

I use them for all my OWB leather holsters... I currently have 4 of them for my Shield 9mm and 45, M&P 2.0, and my one for J Frames. They are are Desantis Thumb Break Scabbard.

Me too. Same holster. I love thumb breaks. Prefer them over anything else. Easy to snap off and adds no time to the draw.

 

[TX-Dennis]

I believe open carry requires a retention device of some sort. As far as what type is best, I am no expert.

I use one of the oft denigrated Blackhawk Serpa holsters for open carry. It works for me. It has never failed to retain the weapon, and I have never shot myself or experienced any unintentional discharge due to the location of the retention button. Your mileage may vary.

 

[SG-688]

We disagree because the thumbsnap is meant to work after attaining a full grasp of the pistol. On a revolver a thumbsnap is then quite natural; on an automatic the release is quite unnatural.

That claim has always puzzled me. I've not seen a revolver holster where a full grip can be obtained and then the snap released. Even that odd S&W holster with a button didn't allow that - at least as I envision the claim, meaning thumb down.

For me - with large hands, long fingers ... and thumbs ... I have contact on the butt with all of my hand but for the thumb and then work the snap the same with either style.

We two curmudgeons will be going at this forever. Great fun!

I recall an article describing some of those long straps as an 'elbow release'!!

Thanks for the picture of that fingertip release Safariland. I was looking for one in the catalogs but started to think I'd dreamed it.

 

[Walter Rego]

I once had an handgun fall out of an open top holster when I was in pursuit of a wounded deer. Sure enough, it landed on a rock and put a nice ding in it. No more open top holster for me. All of my field type belt holsters have a safety strap. But I don't think that's what we are talking about here.
I have several pancake holsters including some of Roy Baker's originals. Most are for autoloaders and my thumb naturally unsnaps the thumb break when I get a good grip on the gun and it comes out of the holster pretty fast. I would trust one of the modern open top Kydex holsters that have some type of pushbutton retention device except they are too ugly and I don't own any. But I would feel very nervous with any open top leather holster even if properly boned and snug fitting, I would be worried that it would fall out at an inopportune moment.

 

[torizus]

I hear tell that even our predecessors of years past felt the need for some type of secure method to retain a gun in some fashion or another.