Tips for a new CCW holder?

[Dahak]

Just finished day 1 with my newly issued CCW permit (TN HCP actually). Felt like I did well but had to concentrate at times on not touching my weapon. I allowed myself 1 tug on my cover shirt each time I stood up from a seat but gosh I wanted to constantly hold my own shirt down.

IWB at about 7:30 (lefty), M&P 2.0 9c with Fed 124 gr. HST. No round in chamber for day 1, but I am going to get myself there - no logical reason not to chamber in a good holster that covers the trigger, but I am working my way there.

Felt like my posture improved as carrying felt better the straighter I stood. Driving was a challenge though - any wisdom from the longtime CCW folks on how to carry while driving?

Good holster (Concealment Express Kydex), good belt (Hank's Gunner in 1.5 inch) - I feel like I am doing all the right things but lacking a guide/mentor who carries regularly, I am looking for both validation and guidance.

My local range only offers the HCP qualification class, no advanced training courses - where can I find additional instruction? (SE TN)

Thanks!

 

[The Big D]

First, welcome...

...to the Forum.

No idea what 'HCP' means.

Consider tucking your shirt...then no reason to tug on it.

If your driving challenge is comfort related, try your carry position closer to 9:00 o'clock. To me 7:30 is way too far back.

Lastly, do NOT think your gun is the only tool in your toolbox. Make good decisions...use of your gun should be your very last resort.


Be safe.

 

[AlHunt]

My only thought would be to play with different belt tension especially between different trousers. Different cuts work better then others. Seemed counter intuitive to me that looser would be more secure but it is with some of my pants.

Sounds like you've read up, thought it through and you're paying attention.

Get that chamber loaded! Attacks happen in an instant and you will not have time to rack the slide.

ETA: Ah, I didn't catch the 7:30 thing. Yeah, that's a PITA and I feel exposed. Maybe a cross draw situation would work for you?

 

[Wise_A]

Felt like I did well but had to concentrate at times on not touching my weapon.

It's a firearm or a pistol, not a weapon.

And carrying it around the back is both uncomfortable while driving, and encourages constant shirt-tugs. That's just the nature of that carry location. It's why I don't carry there anymore.

Chamber a round, put the gun in the holster with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and then put the holster "on".

 

[Rammer Jammer]

You'll be paranoid at first that everyone can see your gun aka printing. After a while you'll realize nobody is noticing and most people are fixated on their own lives.

 

[THEmodelof1989]

When I get to my vehicle, I discretely remove my firearm from my waistband, and put it in the holster I have under my steering column. Making it MUCH more easy to access if I need it right now. It's not for everyone, and you should always check your state law before taking any advice from others about the do's and dont's of carry.

Two tips from me... First, get a round in that chamber so you can operate your firearm with one hand if necessary. Then stay alert about the fact that you are carrying a tool that can easily harm or kill another. Don't EVER get complacent about that fact, because complacency causes accidents.

Stay vigilant, stay safe.

 

[Dogbone44Spl]

I have come to the conclusion that only a Secret Service agent would notice a concealed firearm. Even the LEO around here are preoccupied. Everyone else has a phone stuck in there face. That said be careful.

 

[NCBeagle]

Find what works for you. Try things. Different holsters, firearms, appropriate clothing choices, etc.

Have a few types / sizes of firearms and holsters for different situations. Tis allows you to carry comfortably. You need to carry it. That's the point.

It took me a long time to learn that the most popular holster ride heights, extreme forward cants, etc...do not work for me. It is nearly impossible for me to comfortably conceal a semi-auto when the grip is sticking up at 45 degrees from the belt line. I like a straight drop at 3:30 with the grip resting on top of the belt (0.3% of holsters apparently). Try things, develop a preference, and do not let the most popular holsters determine your gear. That said, buy quality holsters. Sometimes this means spending money.

For example, it took me nearly 20 years to figure out that ankle carry works and has a place in the business casual / nonpermissive work environment. (That's why I have been talking about it so much lately). Incidentally, it is also great for driving. It is not my primary carry method away from work.

 

[HardToHandle]

I disagree with much of the previous commenters. I notice sloppy concealed weapons all the time. If I do, the scary bad guys do too. If you are concerned enough about your safety to carry a gun, be competent. Otherwise you are just a well armed victim.

80% of the folks I make as armed are carrying behind the hip. Why? That location is most difficult to access, the carrier has the least control and involves reholstering without observation. It also is most difficult to conceal based on anatomy, let alone protect your gun. When I stopped wearing a uniform and having it dictated, I transitioned to appendix inside the waistband.

AIWB has strengths and weaknesses, but it works best with my shape, size and fitness. Similarly, crossdraw and many shoulder holsters allow a draw whilst sitting - in a vehicle, a booth or even in a clinch during a physical altercation. Experiment and experience comes (and it is different for everyone).

More important than that, get good training. My goal is to do at least some shooting class/course every other year as continuing education. While I had formal training decades ago, I continue to take a number of basic, intermediate and advanced courses from different instructors. Many were active or retired cops, but a few were not. Everyone had different experiences and points; I always learn something. Constant focus and, hopefully, improvement is (1) consistent with the deadly responsibility of a gun and (2) a demonstrable practice of the responsibility. Probably the most impactful is a trainer who has been shot twice... he was upfront about what not to do.

Finding good training can be a chore. My first thought is Oleg Volk is in the Nashville area (About | VolkStudio Blog) and might make recommendations. Claude Werner is a cerebral trainer in the Atlanta area. If you are near Oak Ridge, certain types of folks with unique skill sets end up there and might have helpful recommendations. Also may want to seek out a local IDPA shoot and ask whom they may recommend.

A person who has the sense and humility to ask your questions is just the type of person who will carry responsibly. Not trying to preach, just reinforcing the good sense already demonstrated.

 

[snubbyfan]

I carry my snubby on my right side in an owb holster. It's comfortable, accessible and conceals well under just a t shirt.


I've been thinkin' of trying IWB but have no real reason to.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Get a holster box. Seriously. We all have one for the holsters we tried that didn't work, or ones that worked until we found something better.

However, I'd suggest giving a holster at least a couple of weeks before deciding if it works/doesn't work. Sometimes it just takes an adjustment period. Of course, if a holster really doesn't work, you'll likely realize it pretty early on.

FWIW, I still do the shirt tug when I get out of the car or when getting up from a chair, but it's something I've always done, even before I started carrying concealed. However, I don't do it when just standing or walking around.

One thing to keep in mind is how far you carry your arms out away from your body. Some people who carry guns have a tendency to let their gun-side arm hang unnaturally far from their side. Just walk naturally, the way you would if you weren't armed.

Most people, with the right clothing and gear combination, can carry bigger guns than they think they can. But it's definitely easier to conceal (but may be harder to shoot with) a smaller gun. It's all about compromise, and figuring out what balance works best for you (see "holster box" comment above).

As has been said, most people are oblivious to what's going on around them. If they notice anything at all, they'll likely just think it's a cell phone or something. I aim for discreet, meaning that there shouldn't be any obvious printing, but indistinct bulges here and there are ok. I've mentioned this several times before, but I once saw someone wearing a polo shirt so tight that I could tell he was carrying a Glock 26/27 under it. I would not consider that discreet.

You've acknowledged the weakness of empty-chamber carry, so I won't add onto that.

Take some training classes, especially if you can find one that incorporates drawing from the holster. While it's not rocket surgery, it would be best to do so under the watchful eye of a good, experienced instructor. I can't think of any in SE TN offhand, but if you can make it to Memphis, I'd suggest Tom Givens at Rangemaster. Another option is to do some research on instructors that travel, as they may have a course available near you. Massad Ayoob and Ernest Langdon are two that come to mind that travel, but there are plenty of others. I think Rob Pincus does mobile training, too.

Also, don't just do gun training. If you can, find some training in empty hand self defense techniques, improvised weapons, edged/stick training, and maybe "soft" skills (i.e., awareness training, Verbal Judo, etc.). I'd also highly recommend some medical training and figuring out a way to carry at least some medical equipment on you. For example, I carry a trauma kit on my ankle that includes a tourniquet, hemostatic gauze, duct tape, a chest seal, and gloves.

Now, I'm not saying you need to do all these things or you're gonna die, but I think it'd be a good idea to try and round out your personal security toolbox as time, money, and/or physical condition permits.

As to comfort in the car, you may just need to adjust your gun's positioning, like moving it forward somewhat, maybe to 8:00 or 8:30. I've actually gone to carrying a BUG on my ankle to give me better access to a gun while driving.

Ultimately, you'll have to spend some time experimenting to figure out what works. Some of us figure things out quickly, others may need weeks, months, or even years to get to the right combo. And then sometimes things change and you may have to re-evaluate how and what you carry. Ideally, you want to keep your carry as consistent as possible, but have some flexibility for different circumstances.

Just my opinion.

And apologies for posting another novel.

 

[ContinentalOp]

No idea what 'HCP' means.

"HCP" = Handgun Carry Permit, what TN calls their carry permit, as it allows both open and concealed carry.

 

[oink]

Start with a thinner, smaller more concealable gun. I only wear behind the back if I'm wearing a sport jacket, etc. Actually 4:00 is about as far back as I go even then.

 

[D Brown]

I carry in an outside the waistband holster, or I pocket carry. Those are the only options as far as I'm concerned. IWB would just be too uncomfortable to tolerate so I'm not going to do it.

That being said, and in deference to the newness of the O.P., I thought I would go ahead and post some photos demonstrating how I carry an M&P in a GALCO outside the waistband holster, a Combat Master to be exact. I wear this holster at about the 8:00 position, and yes, I'm left handed.

The cover shirt is an Outdoor Life Trail Shirt purchased at Sears, they're cheap.

I apologize for the funny hand positions; I had to get a line on the camera with my remote shutter release.

By the way, the demo gun is an M&P 9 V 1.0 4.25", but the holster works just fine with my M&P 9 M2.0 Compact 3.6".

 

[Wise_A]

Finding good training can be a chore. My first thought is Oleg Volk is in the Nashville area (About | VolkStudio Blog) and might make recommendations. Claude Werner is a cerebral trainer in the Atlanta area. If you are near Oak Ridge, certain types of folks with unique skill sets end up there and might have helpful recommendations. Also may want to seek out a local IDPA shoot and ask whom they may recommend.

I would second pretty much any recommendation Oleg Volk made. And if you can afford/get into a Tom Givens class, that would be best.

I would not look to an IDPA or action pistol match for training recommendations. At best, you're dealing with a random group of guys. And while there are some useful things to be gleaned from the shooting sports, there's a metric ton of garbage and bad training out there.

I'd focus on:

*Awareness, decisionmaking, criminal behaviors
*Legal duties in your state
*Safe day-to-day handling of a firearm ("administrative" gun-handling)
*Verbal skills

Most quality classes feature a strong classroom component well before any shooting instruction is done.

No offense to D Brown, but I'm also wary of still pictures of carry positions. Guns don't get exposed when nothing is moving, it's jogging, walking in wind, bending down to pick something up, etc, that causes guns to get exposed.

How important that is, depends on your locale. Under the rules of my state, being exposed can mean going to jail at worst, and almost certainly losing my CCW permit if it gets reported. In other states, it's just a little embarrassing and not super-great from a tactical point of view--concealment is an important component of retention.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Hi Dahak:

Welcome to the Forum. Lots of good advice so far, but unfortunately a lot of what you will learn about carrying a handgun is experiential - you can read extensively on the subject, watch tons of videos, get excellent training and it will still boil down to what works best for you. It is a constantly changing and dynamic journey you will be undertaking, but the lessons learned will serve you in good stead. One thing I learned early on is managing belt and pocket real estate. There is only so much stuff you can carry on your person - unless you want to start carrying a bag of some sort. I EDC (Every Day Carry) a pair of S&W J-frame revolvers - typically in my front pant pockets (both in holsters, of course), a small Swiss Army knife with a Nano pocket flashlight, a CRKT Rescue knife, a Streamlight penlight, car keys, wallet, handkerchief, a cellphone, and a fully loaded, 8 round speed strip as a reload. BTW, I'm an older guy (63 yrs.), and I find the Swiss Army knife and a flashlight my most used tools. Fortunately, at my age, I'm not a slave to fashion, so I don't care if my clothes are baggy.

I will occasionally carry one of my revolvers in an OWB (Outside Waist Band) holster which necessitates the use of a cover garment. My favorite way of dealing with this is by wearing an Under Armour type T-shirt (tucked in), and a button up fishing shirt on top of that - I usually leave the fishing shirt unbuttoned and untucked.

Never take safety for granted, and get very comfortable in safely handling your handgun. I introduced my son (now 21 yrs. old) to the shooting sports when he was 13 yrs. old. One of the things we did was to go to a local shooting range to shoot in Steel Challenge matches. He learned quickly and safely how to shoot and handle a handgun. We shot my stock Ruger Mk-II Target pistol (.22LR) and always placed in the top 10 shooters. This helped my son develop an appreciation and understanding of shooting as well as the importance of the basics (sight alignment, control your breathing, trigger press, follow through), and learning to prioritize accuracy over speed.

Like ContinentalOp, I also apologize for writing my version of "War and Peace".

Best of luck to you.

Regards,

Dave

 

[cmansguns]

talk to your local range managment

I'm 74 and have EDC for almost as many years (ever since first CCW permit..issued in New York). The gun of choice has always been S&W .38 snubbie (Model 36, Model 60, current Model 637 since new). OWB quality holster (S&W) at about 3:30 on quality gunleather (Galco).

I think you are doing it right, but first and foremost is practice, practice until you personally feel comfortable with your gun, your stance, you response time on target.

One thing our local range offers for members (not occasional guest - renters) is when you feel proficient enough, you can ask the RSO to run you through the "holster qualified" course, which is not a big, physical run-around course for action type combat shooters....it is specifically for EDC guys and gals. Similar to police training courses you are actually on the same lane like regular off hand shooting, but your gun is holstered and the RSO gives various commands that you need to correctly respond to: example "present" where you draw, aim toward target. The RSO is watching to see if you are anticipating something ahead and have your trigger finger on the trigger (wrong), instead of alongside. He/She is also watching how smooth (or not smooth) your gun came out of holster without fumbling, pointing, catching on clothes, etc. (i.e. are you a danger to self and others).

Then comes the command "threat" where you fire 2 rounds at target. The command may be "NO-threat", watching for finger to stay outside trigger guard. Command(s) follow like "secure" or "re-holster" and you see how smoothly (or not) you can get your gun back in holster, flaps, snaps, retention system engaged, all without looking away from target or surroundings and looking down at your shirt, waist, holster, etc.

Sounds simple and easy? It is...when you practice at home, dry fire, your giving the commands to yourself in your brain, but you have already staged your shirt, clothes holster.

When done at the range, little bit of adrenalin kicks in, and as you get proficient, the RSO steps up the pressure by flicking the range light on-off, giving more No-threat commands (you best not be popping off rounds on that one).

At my local range, holster qualified, are not formal sessions, and are done only on request, and usually only at times the range bays are near empty so the RSO can devote the hour needed to just you, (and the additional hour sessions..cause you do not do this thing in 1 hour in one session). The thing they always point out is that you are not there to "please" the RSO or to "not look like a dummy", you are there because every person who EDC's must be responsible for any action they may take with that firearm, and you need to be both proficient and comfortable with your private made decision to carry a firearm in public.

All of these things are simply to make you a more comfortable, proficient person that EDC's a firearm.

So train, practice, get good gear to support what works for you, and practice, practice until you feel proficient and competent enough to carry in public and hopefully, like I hope the majority of us who EDC, you'll never have to be put to a test, but feel comfortable that you can defend when faced with a true, real threat with no other way out.

 

[kthom]

It takes a while to get used to carrying every day. You are extremely concious of that fact, and that's good. If you continue to carry, the danger will eventually become that you are no longer as concious of having the gun on that you forget about it! The old saying that familiarity breeds contempt can apply here! We always need to be concious of the fact that we are armed. But the large majority of the population doesn't really pay any attention unless the exposure of your weapon is very obvious. You will learn how to avoid excessive printing or exposure. In the beginning, you are correct to begin your getting used to carrying in and around your own home. YOu've got to wear it every day and make adjustments that become obvious along the way. You will learn to bend down or over in a different way, for example, and you will learn what clothing you need to wear to minimize printing or exposure. It just takes a bit of time, like anything new. When you get used to carrying, just don't allow yourself to become unconcious that you are!

 

[Ziggy2525]

No expert, just another guy a little further down the path than you.

Here's what I'd suggest....

1) Make sure you really understand your state law as it pertains to carry laws, use of force, and use of deadly force. Know where you can carry and where you can't. Know how force and deadly force are different. Know when you can use force and when you can use deadly force. Know when you have to retreat and when you don't. Know the penalties if you fail to follow the rules.

2) Check out this guys video playlist on YouTube. His name is John Murphy. He's a trainer that put his pre-training videos online. Here's the first video. There are 10 videos in the playlist. I think they really frame the ccw context pretty well.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ju5GtzzgLE&list=PLkL2g0uY2GSduhVBwzGL2ROyN-TSdDGLq"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ju5GtzzgLE&list=PLkL2g0uY2GSduhVBwzGL2ROyN-TSdDGLq[/ame]

3) Get yourself an inexpensive tripod for your camera/phone and a shot timer app for your phone. You can use the tripod/camera to video your draw stroke (it should be smooth, not spastic) and how well your pistol conceals as you move/turn/bend (you may want to consider moving your pistol to 8:30). The shot timer app will get used for dry fire practice (next step).

4) Set up a place for dry fire practice. Before you dry fire, TRIPLE CHECK to make sure the pistol is unloaded. And NO LIVE AMMO in your dry fire space. There are so many instructors, it's easy to jump from one to another. Better to pick just one to start with. There's a kind of famous trainer named Claude Werner that has a downloadable, step-by-step Concealed Carry/Dry Fire program. It costs $7.99 (no affiliation on my part). It's geared towards people that can't get to formal training. Here's a link to his web site. When you click the link on the "Concealed Carry Skills and Drills book" link on his site it will take you to PayPal to buy the book. He has a decent blog too. (Don't just read the book, follow the program).
Concealed Carry Skills and Drills – The Book | tacticalprofessor

5) Seven days a week, this guy posts daily videos, usually 5 min or so, that shows real self defense encounters. He gives some lessons about how he thinks they should have been approached.
YouTube

Five days a week he also posts a video on different aspects of CCW. Legal aspects. Training. Etc. It's on a separate channel here.
YouTube

I'm thinking that should get you started. Good luck.

 

[fredj338]

First, chamber a rd. Carrying in a fashion you are not used to can be a critical mistake. Its a comfort thing. You soon realize no one sees you. So no need to constantly adjust or touch. I check my cover when I exit the car.
I wear 3:30, g19 or g26 is not an issue while driving. If you are going for a long haul, like 3-4hr, a separate holster under the dash or along the console is popular.
You are 100% on addl training but dont forget solid practice sessions. Imo, far too many people, including leo, carry a gun but really dont have much skill level for even a basic single attacker contact. Good classes are not cheap, but you dont need to take a huge number. Take a good class, then go practice what you learned.
Many professionals will mock competition, but many professionals support things like idpa for good trigger time. Most dont have a place to work from a holster, shoot & move, etc. So a monthly or more competition will do a lot to increase your gun handling skills. It is not however training, not by a mile. Carrying a gun is a social commitment & should be treated that way.