To Laser or not to Laser

[Neumann]

I guess the majority feel that real men don't use lasers. Personally I feel they have their place, and a prime place is on the guns I carry.

I don't buy the argument that if it's too dark to see the sights, it's too dark to shoot. You can identify the threat in light far to low to distinguish the sights. Luminescent night sights help, but a laser is brighter and quicker. Black iron held at 6:00 is the most accurate way to shoot paper, but with combat sighting, in the center of the circle, black sights are pretty difficult to distinguish from the background.

I don't think the light makes you a more visible target. If you need a gun, presumably you are already a target. In that case, faster is always better.

Chasing a dancing dot is much easier if you practice grip, sight alignment and trigger control. When using a laser, I draw and present the same way I would with iron sights, but stop just below the line of sight. I can line up the sights very quickly if necessary (can't see the dot).

You can see a red dot in sunlight, it's just harder to find unless it's on target. Line up the iron sights, and you'll see the dot, at least up to 50 feet away.

Given a choice between tritium night sights and a fiber optic front, I'm more inclined to go with the latter. They will light up even from a single streetlight. If it's really dark, tritium or laser work better, but you're harder to see too. The best fight is one you avoid, unless real men don't run and dodge either. (It's better to be old than bold, IMO).

 

[ContinentalOp]

I guess the majority feel that real men don't use lasers.

I haven't seen anything in this thread to justify such an assumption. Care to explain?

 

[Absalom]

I am somewhat surprised how many people here seem to think a laser's job is to illuminate the target. At least anyone here who discusses gun lights and flashlights in the same threat implies that.

A laser does one thing only, if properly sighted in, and that's to show you where on the target your gun's muzzle is pointing. Whether the target is a rat, an armed intruder, or an elephant, is something you need to ascertain before pulling the trigger.

My only experience is with Crimson Trace whose overmold-size grips also happen to be the ergonomically best grips for a J-frame for my hands. I have those on all of mine that are on "active duty". The red dot is perfectly visible in sunlight at self-defense distances, and if the target is so far away that the dot gets too diffuse, you should not need it and have time and space to use the sights properly.

The laser is a supplement, not a substitute, and I do not share the apparent belief of some here that having one on your gun makes you magically incapable of using the sights. But as others have said, there may be situations where you can't use the sights. It's always better to have options. Practice with all of them.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I am somewhat surprised how many people here seem to think a laser's job is to illuminate the target. At least anyone here who discusses gun lights and flashlights in the same threat implies that.

It's because the OP mentioned the use of lasers in no/low light situations.

 

[tflt]

The biggest advantage of laser sighting is the ability to take full advantage of cover, and concealment. A laser will allow you to produce your gun from behind cover, shoot the target with reasonable accuracy, and stop a threat.

You'd improve your survival and proficiency by learning to shoot well with a flashlight, in my humble opinion.

By all means go for the laser if you like, stack the deck in your favor when ever you can Doc.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

It's because the OP mentioned the use of lasers in no/low light situations.

I don't think that the OP meant to imply that the laser 'illuminated' the target in low light situations, but rather is used as a 'supplement' to the sights, when the sights are difficult to see.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I don't think that the OP meant to imply that the laser 'illuminated' the target in low light situations, but rather is used as a 'supplement' to the sights, when the sights are difficult to see.

Absalom made the assumption that people were responding as if lasers were for target illumination. I pointed out that the OP mentioned using lasers in no/low-light situations, which is why other posters were responding in that manner.

 

[rwsmith]

My thoughts......

Lasers are great for quick acquisition of perps, but for target shooting they kinda stink.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Got Some.......
Good for training ,ok for snubs at 5yds or less [quick shot/point shooting]
Not for general shooting [too much wiggle] and remember like lights,
lasers work both ways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chief38]

Personally I like to keep it simple and not rely on extra equipment that can malfunction when most needed. More weight, more maintenance, more hassle and at the end of the day, most SD situations will more than likely be up close and personal - no Laser needed (IMO).

 

[Cal44]

Personally I like to keep it simple and not rely on extra equipment that can malfunction when most needed. More weight, more maintenance, more hassle and at the end of the day, most SD situations will more than likely be up close and personal - no Laser needed (IMO).

For me, the Crimson Trace laser grips on a revolver are useful for range training.

For carry, there is a switch on the bottom and you can turn them off.

On J frames, the CT grips are very nice for absorbing recoil and work well with speed loaders.

It's hard to find good J frame grips that are properly relieved for speed loaders.

 

[Bill Raby]

Why would you want to put a kitty toy on your gun? Sure, the kitty cat will have a great time chasing that dot around the room, but you will have a gun pointed at the poor little critter the whole time. Not good.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

Why would you want to put a kitty toy on your gun? Sure, the kitty cat will have a great time chasing that dot around the room, but you will have a gun pointed at the poor little critter the whole time. Not good.

No kittys in our house, ... , anymore!

Seriously though, we are dog-folk.
(our dog would chase the red spot too, just like a kitty)

 

[ldryder]

On a topic where every handgun owner will have their own, possibly highly-subjective opinion and a right-or-wrong answer depends on the preferences of the individual... I enjoyed reading Massad Ayoob's reasoning when writing about his own M&P 340:

"What impressed the hell out of me with the M&P340, were its sights. The front sight is the humongous, glowing night sight that XS Sight Systems calls "The Big Dot." In fast, close work, even in the dark, it lets you get indexed on your target sooner than anything else you'll find atop a J-frame revolver. And, what really sold me, the rear sight is an equally humongous square notch. This allows a proper sight picture if there's time, and pretty much guarantees me 25-yard headshots. The best of both worlds. I also have a Crimson Trace Lasergrip on it as a fallback sighting device."

 

[zogger]

Awhile back I bought a red laser. I used it on and off but now it is no longer on my gun. I did not find it super helpful because you have to sight it in at a specific distance. If you are too close, the the laser dot is hidden by the gun. If you are too far away while you can see the laser dot, you will shoot low if you point the laser at where you want to hit.

I can see it being useful when you can't get your sights on the target or you are holding the gun below eye level. But I really did not find it useful.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

I totally agree about sighting in the laser.

On my 638, the laser is at the top of the right-side grip panel.
Ideally, it should be adjusted so that it stays parallel to the bore axis - so that your point of impact will always be about an inch to the upper left of the red dot, and not vary with distance.

I have it set so that it lines up with the sights (more or less) when I dry fire the gun in my house, which may be about 7 or 8 yards.

When I fired it at the range, I found it very finicky when trying to adjust it with the tiny hex key, so much so that it wasn't worth fussing with.
Also, my middle finger doesn't activate the laser every time, so I would never rely on the laser.

I found it much more useful to focus on the target, the sights, and to use my peripheral vision to see if the red dot was shaking as I pulled the trigger in double-action.

As I said in my initial post, I think it is MOST useful as a training tool to master the double action trigger pull of my small pistol.

BTW, that M&P340 is a beauty, but I don't ever want to fire full load .357s out of a gun that small. I do wish my 638 had a pinned front sight so I could install that tritium. I added bright orange nail polish on mine, but that doesn't glow in the dark.

 

[zogger]

As I said in my initial post, I think it is MOST useful as a training tool to master the double action trigger pull of my small pistol.

If you really want to work on your DA trigger pull, try the Mantis X system. I got one for Christmas and it is helping me a lot to improve my trigger pull.

 

[Doc Holliday 1950]

I bought a laser guide rod for my G43. It cost $199. from Natchez I used it for about 4 sessions at my range,
After that I removed it and put in the original guide rod. I found(FOR ME) that the guide rod laser was a
distraction and I don't want to spend another $250 to $395 for a laser system that's activated by the grips
& be dissapointed again. Maybe my range has one I can rent. Until then
I'll be laserless.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

If you really want to work on your DA trigger pull, try the Mantis X system. ...

I looked it up and it mounts on a rail.
My 638, 686, 629 and GP-100 don't have rails.

The 638 has a fairly heavy double action trigger pull which it's light weight accentuates.
The other revolvers are heavier and easier to fire smoothly.

I will definitely keep the Mantis X in mind as I work on longer distances with my rail equipped pistols.
Thanks for the tip!

 

[SA1911]

I want nothing attached to a self-defense handgun.

I seriously doubt that I'd be looking at a light. I'd be looking at a threat's hands because only hands will kill me. I'd be scanning for other bad guys, and I'd be trying to figure out how I'd be getting the heck outta there before lead starts flying.