To P+ or not to P+

[pugbro]

I have a S&W Model 669 in like new condition, which I carry sometimes. In looking at some of the "self defense" ammo, many are loaded "P+"....Is it safe to use the P+ ammo in my 669? It is a great little gun and would hate to ruin it by using the wrong ammo?
Thanks:

 

[Bozz10mm]

I don't know if it would ruin it. I think I would stay with standard pressure rounds. I have elected not to fire +P in my model 39-2.

Federal HST rounds work very well at standard pressure. No real need for +P, and you get better control for follow up shots.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! The factory manual suggests "+P" ammo to be safe but will accelerate wear on the gun. See the link on "Metal Frame Centerfire Pistols", page 11:

Owner's Manuals - Smith & Wesson

Many 9 mm users find a reliable expanding bullet load that shoots to point of aim and is controllable for them and call it good, whether +P or not. Hope this is helpful.

 

[badge]

With proper shot placement the party on the receiving end will never know the difference. Carry what works the weapon the best and that you shoot the best.

 

[chief38]

Welcome to the Forum!

Most Factory +P offerings today are a bit watered down from the original SAAMI spec's and are not all that hot. As long as you are using the Big Three's (Remington, Winchester & Federal) offerings I would personally not be concerned with their +P ammo in any modern gun.

I am a big Buffalo Bore Ammo fan and their ammo is loaded to the ORIGINAL .38 Spl. +P spec's and IS hot. Just as a note ...... Buffalo Bore's standard .38 Spl. (NON +P) 158 grain LSWCHP loading is almost an exact copy (ballistically speaking) of Remington's +P 158 grain LSWCHP. I've Chronographed and tested them from the same guns on the same days many times with the same results. So as far as I am concerned, the Remington, Winchester and Federal +P (FBI loads) are no different than the BB standard (NON +P) 158 gr. LSWCHP and are just about indistinguishable as far as ballistics are concerned. The one plus I will give the Remington #R38S12 FBI load is that it has always shown marvelous and consistent expansion in Ballistics Gelatin. Not so with the Federal and Winchester FBI equivalents. Buffalo Bores NON +P load does also expand but not quite as well. I like the BB 158 gr. (HEAVY) +P LSWCHP-GC which out of my 2" Chief's Special gives and HONEST 1040 fps and 361 foot pounds of energy which is better than a 158 grain .357 Magnum from the Big 3 out of the same 2" bbl. gun. The muzzle blast and recoil are a whole lot less than a .357 Mag and the results are better from 2" guns. They are HOT and do require practice and getting use to. I would also not fire them on a steady basis from ANY J Frame, but won't blow the gun up either. If thousands are fired from the same J Frame I would check it for stretching - but for a few a year in practice no harm should be done.

 

[MichiganScott]

I choose the load that shoots to point of aim in my fixed sight handguns, +p or not. That additional speed means nothing if you miss.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I choose the load that shoots to point of aim in my fixed sight handguns, +p or not. That additional speed means nothing if you miss.

I strongly agree. I will only add that the OP is discussing a semi-auto pistol, so the issue of reliable functioning must also be considered.

Any ammunition that reliably feeds, fires, extracts, and ejects while shooting to point of aim at normal handgun ranges is preferable to any ammunition that will not function reliably or will not strike the target at point of aim. +P, higher velocity and energy, bullet construction, terminal ballistics, none of these things enter the decision making process until the basics of reliability and accuracy are fulfilled.

 

[Larry from Bend]

I carried a 669 for about 3 years in the '80s, starting shortly after they originally came out. Mine was totally reliable with WW 115 grain Silvertips.

 

[chief38]

WOOOPPSSS!!!

Silly me! I have not payed much attention to the more modern Smith production #'s and didn't remember the gun the OP was asking about was a semi auto.

 

[Doug M.]

Go find the ammo recommendations from Doctor Roberts (mentioned several times on the forum in the last few months by a couple of us); go through it, check the ammo list for 9mm, find one that works EVERY TIME and you shoot well consistent with the points made by MichiganScott and LoboGunLeather, and drive on. Unless you are shooting a LOT more than most of us, including LE, the risk of accelerated wear with +P ammo is ... modest.

 

[rwsmith]

There is no +P in 9mm

9mm ammo marked +P is loaded to the upper end of the chart, but unlike something like a .38 special, which started as a black powder cartridge, the 9mm parabellum was designed from the beginning for the pressure it still uses today and there is no real need for the +P marking.

I guess that and a $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.