Tombstone Territory (TV Show) and a Cowboy Question

[Texas Star]

Elmer Keith discuussed Westerners he'd known and various gunfights they'd had in, Sixguns.

He was born in 1899 if memory serves and knew such men in his youth.

JimmyJ carried four guns on hazardous police duty. Few do, and I suspect Old West people were similar. In some states like Texas, modern gun laws allow much freer legal carry.

Pirates with multiple pistols were attacking ships, not just doing routine sailing.

 

[Injunbro]

Respected lawman Jeff Milton carried 22 .45's, one in his holster & another in his vest. He also lost the use of his left arm in a gunfight but kept a back up. As far as what's seen on TV I put about as much credibility as I do the media, car salesmen, politicians...

 

[jimmyj]

Tombstone Territory

Interesting. What four and where did you carry them body wise?

1. S&W Model 64 4" - shoulder holster

2. S&W Model 64 2" - OWB

3. S&W Model 60 2" - ankle holster

4. AMC .380 - right rear pocket

In addition there were Remington Model 870s with folding metal stocks and an assortment of rifles: M1 Carbines, Mac 10s, a Thompson, Winchester .351s, a Reising, a M1 Garand, and a BAR. Mostly only the Model 870s were taken from the arms locker. The CDS had its own building , vehicles, and arms.

 

[jimmyj]

Tomstone Territory

The horse you rode every day for months of tedious chores is not the same as the horse engaged in a cavalry charge against rifle and artillery fire. Horses usually have very sensitive hearing and a sense of smell that surpasses anything humans are capable of. When startled by sudden loud noises, or surprised by unusual odors, horses can be a handful or more to deal with.

My Father was a "Horse Soldier" and sometime in the 1930s the saber creased to be an issue item. Mostly weapon firing was a "Dismounted Drill". Charges were conducted with weapons cased until close to the enemy and then pistols / rifles were drawn as the trooper was dismounting. Pistol charges while mounted were at "Raised Pistol" while the off hand held the reins. Any firing was done from the right or left side and never near the mount's head.

Even John Wayne would have had a tough time staying in the saddle on Old Dollar if he chose to whip out his Colt and shoot suddenly after a few weeks on the trail.[/QUOTE]

 

[Texas Star]

1. S&W Model 64 4" - shoulder holster

2. S&W Model 64 2" - OWB

3. S&W Model 60 2" - ankle holster

4. AMC .380 - right rear pocket

In addition there were Remington Model 870s with folding metal stocks and an assortment of rifles: M1 Carbines, Mac 10s, a Thompson, Winchester .351s, a Reising, a M1 Garand, and a BAR. Mostly only the Model 870s were taken from the arms locker. The CDS had its own building , vehicles, and arms.

What is CDS? That's a nice assortment of older arms.

 

[UncleEd]

Pistol charges while mounted were at "Raised Pistol" while the off hand held the reins. Any firing was done from the right or left side and never near the mount's head.
l.

[/QUOTE]

This!

A number of photos exist of troopers training
with their 1911s. Arm extended, the troopers
are shown firing to their sides.

Actually mounted Cowboy Action Shooting riders
also shoot their blanks off to the sides of their
horses.

 

[Catwrangler]

Not Hoss related, but my maternal grandfather(passed B4 I was born) hunted quail behind dogs from a saddlebroken mule. Somewhere around here is a pic of him astride a saddled mule with one ear. Story was the man he bought it from had accidently shot the mules ear off.
He and my grandmother farmed about 15 miles east of Kingstree, S.C. and raised 12 kids. The pic dated to the '30s.
Fond memories visitingmy aunts and uncles for a week or two in the summer- Picking figs, strawberries,etc. and hauling a load of flue cured tobacco to the tobacco auction in my uncles 1953 Chevy p-up.
Fields of cotton, tobacco barns and a trip to the store for stage plank taffy bars. (an obvious plot by dentists). The taffy could extract fillings !

 

[jimmyj]

Tombstore Territory

Crime Deterrant Squad
1. street clothes
2. stakeouts
3. decoys
4. evidence gathering (dumpster diving-new guys was used for this "assignment)
5. 90% night work.
** Hippie era
*** on call 24X7
**** work suited for non-family officers

What is CDS? That's a nice assortment of older arms.

 

[Doug M.]

Police work as it should be: hunting bad guys as the apex predator.

 

[PALADIN85020]

That two-gun sheriff wouldn't
have had a chance against
Four-Gun Johnny nor Johnny's
much bigger brother, known
as Six-Gun Tommy.

That's my historical answer and
I'm sticking to it.

I think Tommy Gun from a bit later era would have had the edge by 20, 30, 50 or 100 shots...

John

 

[ContinentalOp]

Crime Deterrant Squad
1. street clothes
2. stakeouts
3. decoys
4. evidence gathering (dumpster diving-new guys was used for this "assignment)
5. 90% night work.
** Hippie era
*** on call 24X7
**** work suited for non-family officers

Police work as it should be: hunting bad guys as the apex predator.

I remember a TV show that featured a story (non-fiction) about a detective who did robbery decoy operations. He would go into high-crime areas acting drunk and wearing a Rolex. As soon as someone robbed him his team would swoop in and make the arrest. It also said this kind of work was highly dangerous.

I've read that a lot of police departments have moved away from such operations citing officer safety issues.

If I'm not mistaken, I think LAPD SIS is still doing stakeout operations like this.

Kudos to anyone who's done this kind of work.

 

[Doug M.]

It's the safety of officers from the moonbats that is the big problem. Crazy rioters, idiot command officers, unethical prosecutors and the like are making smart cops just sit in a parking lot and do nothing proactive.

 

[BearBio]

Wild Bill Hickok did. Check it out:

Wild Bill Hickock (actually James Butler Hickock=he was originally called "Duck Bill Hickock" due to an overbite and William Hickock was his cousin.) carried two guns because he carried Colt Navies. He practiced religiously and pulled his charges every night and reloaded. He really was a marksman and could truly be called a shootist!

The original Texas Rangers carried two large pistols in pommel holsters, usually a pepperbox or smaller revolver in their belt, a Bowie knife, one or two large bore "plains rifles" in scabbards and a shortie shotgun! Maybe a boot dagger, as well.

Interestingly, many "mountain boys" kept percussion and flintlock rifles in use until well into the 1920s and'30s. Powder and lead were cheaper than cartridges and just as reliable for a practiced shooter.

 

[Texas Star]

Wild Bill Hickock (actually James Butler Hickock=he was originally called "Duck Bill Hickock" due to an overbite and William Hickock was his cousin.) carried two guns because he carried Colt Navies. He practiced religiously and pulled his charges every night and reloaded. He really was a marksman and could truly be called a shootist!

The original Texas Rangers carried two large pistols in pommel holsters, usually a pepperbox or smaller revolver in their belt, a Bowie knife, one or two large bore "plains rifles" in scabbards and a shortie shotgun! Maybe a boot dagger, as well.

Interestingly, many "mountain boys" kept percussion and flintlock rifles in use until well into the 1920s and'30s. Powder and lead were cheaper than cartridges and just as reliable for a practiced shooter.

Early Rangers made Paterson Colts famous, esp. in an 1840 battle against Indians. Later Colts and by the 1870's, Winchesters, later ones often being M-1895's in .30-40. Many carried SAA's and M-1911's until quite recently.

Rangers bought their own guns and horses.

 

[jimmyj]

Tombstone Territory

Our regular "Decoy" acts was to act drunk, flash a large bankroll and leave a bar. The BGs would follow him, engage him in conversation while one would slit his back pocket with a razor and grap the wallet and run ( right into our hands-SURPRISE !)

I remember a TV show that featured a story (non-fiction) about a detective who did robbery decoy operations. He would go into high-crime areas acting drunk and wearing a Rolex. As soon as someone robbed him his team would swoop in and make the arrest. It also said this kind of work was highly dangerous.

I've read that a lot of police departments have moved away from such operations citing officer safety issues.

If I'm not mistaken, I think LAPD SIS is still doing stakeout operations like this.

Kudos to anyone who's done this kind of work.