Too much leading? How to avoid / clean?

[os2firefox]

Finally got a chance to take out my 629 to the range. I ran through 50 rounds of freedom munitions jacketed rnfp rounds and when I came home, I found that the barrel had a layer of lead.

Is this normal or too much leading? I thought that jacketed bullets shouldn't be this bad. Any reasonable way to avoid it and how do you best clean it (my nylon brush didn't seem to have much effect)?

 

[twodog max]

There ought not be any leading with jacketed bullets. Any possibility these are plated instead of jacketed. IMO you are going to need a bronze brush for this chore and some good solvent and elbow grease.

 

[jbtrucker]

Shooters Choice Lead Remover or other brand, soak Barrel and repeat several times with Bronze Brush. Chore Boy Copper cleaning Pads is recommended with small wad pushed through. Only FMJ in my Revolver after two days of cleaning

 

[smamh]

Is that a crack in the bottom of the barrel in the first picture?

 

[5-Shot]

Is that a crack in the bottom of the barrel in the first picture?

It shows up in the third photo too!

Ed

 

[mgriffin]

Google Lewis Lead remover....

 

[EK2944]

As far as lead removal it's hard to beat good ol bronze wool. I get mine in the paint section of most hardware stores. 3 pads for about 3 to 5 dollars. enough to do several guns. Wrap strands around an old bore brush and make sure it's tight fitting. 5 or 6 strokes and lead is gone.

I agree with the others. Appears to be hairline crack in that barrel. I would get that checked before letting another round go down that barrel.

 

[oger]

A Lewis Lead remover is the best but bronze wool will work but take a lot longer.

 

[sw282]

l checked the Freedom Munitions website..Their 44mag fhp ammo is loaded to 1240fps... The bullets used are copper plated swaged lead..
Biggest makers of plated swaged bullets I KNOW OF are Berrys and
Raniers... Bullet max velocity specs are 1500fps for Raniers and 1250
on Berrys. Without knowing the exact maker of the bullets l would say
the ammo is OK.. l have never seen leading that bad before after just
50 rds..l have even shot UNLUBED cast bullets and the leading was
not that bad.. l don't know the cause of the leading
The crack is what concerns me most...l would get that checked before shooting it again

 

[rockquarry]

May be the quality of the photos, but what some are referring to as a crack might be merely a scratch. Look closely at the first photo. Below the "crack" depiction is a faint scratch on the face of the underlug that appears to be a continuation of the "crack".

 

[sw282]

My vote is a crack. l see a distinct separation In the metal. Wider at the bore edge and tapering invard

 

[Peak53]

Something is very wrong here. Any chance the barrel was leaded by a previous owner before your range trip?

 

[Jingles]

Wow, I've never seen lead fouling that bad. Was the gun new? If so did you clean it before taking it to the range? It almost looks like a jacket separated from the bullet and subsequent rounds passed through the stuck jacket, which might also explain the crack.

 

[os2firefox]

I bought the revolver new and ran a boresnake through it a couple of times, bore was nice and shiny.

Do you get a lot of leading from plated swagged lead bullets? Didn't realize freedom munitions used that, but thanks for the heads up on how to clean it out.

The crack that some people mentioned was a hair/string from the wipedown towel I used that got caught on the rough leading.

 

[chief38]

Not purposely trying to alarm you but I have NEVER seen leading that bad before and I have been at this for a long time. I would suspect there is something weird with the bullets you are shooting.

For starters I'd get a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownell's, then I'd call the bullet manufacturer and email him those pics. I think that is WAY WAY TOO MUCH leading from any bullet design from 50 rounds. Something just isn't right IMHO.

 

[smamh]

Glad it wasn't cracked.

 

[twodog max]

I have to think you have a bullet problem.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

First of all......stop using that brand bullets..........

Second...........

 

[glenwolde]

Something is very wrong. I've been shooting revolvers for decades and have never seen anything even remotely similar to that. That is a dangerous level of leading, bordering on a bore obstruction.

Even if you remove it, you have to find the cause. I'm stumped as to how that could happen with plated bullets. Granted they aren't as tough as jacketed bullets, but still. That's just crazy leading.

Personally I'd run that by a gunsmith, or S&W, before I cleaned it. They likely aren't going to believe it without seeing it.

It would be interesting to know if your throats are really tight. Revolvers require proper diameter of throat, barrel, and bullet to avoid leading. One, or maybe two, of those things are off in your gun.

 

[cmj8591]

This is an ammo problem for sure. If you are going to drive bullets really fast, stick to true jacketed bullets. Keep velocities below 1000 fps for lead and plated bullets. Pushing non jacketed bullets fast without problems is in the realm of advanced reloading.

 

[sw282]

l have read thru this thread 3 times. l still dont know what caused the
excessive leading. l do suspect it may be the ammo. l propose another
BRAND of ammo be tried. lf the leading disappears, lt was the ammo..
lf leading is present a second time, time to call the factory..

 

[twodog max]

To get leading that bad all it takes is one bad bullet that leaves a lot of lead then each successive bullet is then damaged and deposits more lead. I once had a similar problem with some very soft swaged wadcutters in a Colt. I did not use those again.

Once you get that cleaned out shoot something different and keep an eye on the bore so it does not get that bad again.

When you clean get it all out or you will be back to square one again.

 

[grizz700]

I run Freedom Munitions in my 44 and have not had a leading issue. Couple of passes with my bronze brush and I am good to go again.

 

[glenwolde]

Hard for me to believe it's just the ammo. The most likely cause is the bullet is way undersized for the bore for some reason. Now that could be the bullet is undersized from the manufacturer, the bore is oversized, or the throats are undersized and swaging the bullets down. Would such a grossly undersized bullet would even stay in the case, if that was the only problem?

This incident is so bad that it might be two of the above. What needs to happen is mic the bullet, the throats, and slug the barrel. S&W barrels are hard to slug without the proper jig, as the odd number of lands gives you no direct measurement.

S&W or a gunsmith could figure this out for you without a lot of effort. I'd mic a bullet and if that seemed OK I'd send it back. If I wanted to do it myself I'd buy some inside pin gauges to measure the throats and send off a barrel slug to Dardas bullets, they will measure it for you.

But you are highly likely to find something out of spec with the gun if those bullets mic out close to OK so you'll end up sending it back anyway.

There's other possibilities but those are the things I'd look at first. I'm no fan of Freedom Munitions but I'm sure they sell lots of that ammo and it can't be happening to everybody.

For a quick check of the throats you can take an unloaded bullet and try to push it into the chamber throat from the front of the cylinder. It should slide in with just moderate thumb pressure. If it falls through from it's own weight the throats are to big, if you can't get it in at all they are too tight. Only inside pin gauges will tell you by how much.

If I was a gambling man my best guess for a single problem is the throats are way undersized. The good news is that's an easy fix.

 

[andyo5]

As previously stated there could be several reasons for this. If they are full power magnum loads, you should be shooting jacketed bullets. If they were jacketed and still gave you leading, there is something seriously wrong with either the ammo or the gun. I have been finding that with lead bullets, softer alloys are better for lower power loads and give little to no leading. Higher power loads (supersonic, above 1100 ft./sec) work better with harder alloys.
Consider investing in a Lewis Lead Remover to get rid of this lead.

 

[Nightowl]

Wow! Never seen anything like that before! I would think that it would be more than just the ammo, as earlier comments stated. Once you get the gun cleaned, you might try some Remington or Winchester jacketed soft point ammo and see if there is any problems and if they are accurate. If they don't shoot well, you may have a gun problem. Like the rest, I would like to know if the barrel is within tolerances and the throats are .429. The throats on my old 29-2 are .432, which was common back then, and it never leaded that bad.

 

[os2firefox]

I took your advice and emailed the pictures to SW as well as Freedom Munitions two days ago. Still have not heard anything.

Took a look at the 629 again. It has a 6 1/2" barrel and I noticed that the first part of the barrel looked clean. The second half is where the leading gradually begins.

Looking at the freedom munitions site, they are using X-treme plated bullets for their .44 MAG RNFP rounds loaded to 1240 fps.

When I bought the revolver, I took it out and shot 6 rounds of mag tech ammo and it seemed fine afterwards (didn't notice lead in the bore). Afterwards, I sent it in to get it refinished in melonite. A guy on another forum suggested that it was possible for the new finish to increase the velocity of the bullet... I am not sure if it is possible that the X-treme bullets are exceeding their maximum fps?

By the way, I faintly remember when I was extracting one of the last loads, a piece of bullet plating fell out of somewhere. The revolver continued shooting dead-on, made 6 holes in the paper, and nothing appeared obstructed from behind (range officer wouldn't have taken kindly to looking in the wrong end of the barrel even if it was empty).

Anyways, depending on what they reply, my plan is to clean out the lead and try jacketed bullets. Since this is my only revolver, I don't have the tools to measure the throats, yet :/

 

[sw282]

l did some reading on Melonite...l think they coated the inside of the barrel too..Somehow making its surface rough.. Get some more Freedom Munitions 44 ammo and shoot it in your gun and another gun for comparison. lf the borrowed gun were ok and yours leaded up again, theres your answer.

 

[avery53]

I and a friend have shot thousands of X-treme plated bullets and not had a leading problem. Something else is at play here!

 

[H Richard]

I'll join the group that has never ever seen leading that extreme. I have loaded ans shot many thousands of cast lead bullets, in .32, 38, 44, 45, and even 7mm, (the 7mm at 1800 fps), and have never had leading like that. I will offer one possibility, that the crimp on the "plated" bullets is too much, cutting through the plating, and when fired the plating strips back and swagged lead is exposed. If this could be the case there is also the danger of plating sticking in the bore and the possibility of catastrophic results. The cause is really needed to be found out. I would also clean completely and fire a few jacketed to see the results, then just a few at a time of the "plated" rounds, inspecting the barrel after every couple of rounds.