Traffic Camera Blocker

[Capt Steve]

In short, if you get a ticket for running a light, then you had time to stop for that light.

The purpose of traffic enforcement cameras is very simple: Safety. If it generates revenue from idiot drivers...GOOD! If you don't run the light or excessively speed you do not get a ticket. The average speedometer has 3 to 5 MPH of error and there is not a court in the country that won't throw out your ticket if you produce certified calibration showing yours reading low(if it doesn't then you were speeding and deserve the ticket, don't ask me how I know this).

Here in Arizona the speed cameras don't go off unless you are 11 MPH over the posted limit and still people bitch. Driving (along with doing so while talking on a cell phone), is not a right, it is a privilege and one that can and should be easily revoked for being stupid.

 

[safearm]

Because of the perceived problems with private companies running the red light camera system for profit (the municipalities received a share of the collections), the Mississippi Legislature outlawed all red light cameras. It probably had something to do with the majority of the cameras being mounted in Jackson, the state capitol.

 

[lonejacklarry]

The whole deal was called into question on legal grounds and even entrapment.

Entrapment? How would you figure that? Someone was coerced into doing something illegal? You might explain that for me.

In short, if you get a ticket for running a light, then you had time to stop for that light.

That is absolutely true!

I remember the good ol' days in the early 70's when I was riding a wheel for a large midwestern police department. We'd often set up at an intersection w/ a high accident rate and watch. It would not take long to see the light turn yellow and we could hear a vehicle speed up and then watch it bust the light.

Almost without fail, the driver would say the yellow was too short or had malfunctioned or that the brakes failed or some other excuse.

If you're paying attention and not speeding, you can stop in time. Besides, the cameras don't trip for a yellow light violation but trip when the vehicle enters the intersection after the light has turned red.

 

[4011]

Here in Arlington, Tx. the red light camera at 303 and Cooper tags a bunch of us. The ticket is from the camera monitoring company. Supposed to be reviewed by a local officer before being sent to us. No good, traffic officer would have wasted his time on mine.......The other one was the same month in Mesa Az. for 10 over. Turned off a super wide street onto a simlar street and the speed limit dropped 10 MPH. Total of the two $250......... Only tickets I have ever gotten and been driving for 50 years.

 

[nostraDONus]

Hi:
While waiting in my car at the Mall (Wife shopping)......... Jimmy

OK Jimmy, I gotta ask. What store at the mall sells wives and do they parade them out to the car while you're waiting there?

 

[luis]

Don't get caught with the spray in most states as it is a felony. It would be stupid to go to jail for a spray that does not work.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Don't get caught with the spray in most states as it is a felony. It would be stupid to go to jail for a spray that does not work.

The stuff I saw does work, if the camera uses a flash and the angle between the camera and the license tag is not too oblique. The metallic particles it contains act like a mirror and reflect the flash back at the camera, essentially blinding it. If the camera does not use a flash, then of course the sprays don't work.


Bullseye

 

[LVSteve]

In short, if you get a ticket for running a light, then you had time to stop for that light.

Not true. What the COMPANY running the cameras AND the city traffic lights did was shorten the yellow to get more revenue. They were on a percentage of the fines. They had stupid stuff like two second or less yellows on 45 MPH roads, and 1 second yellows on 35 MPH roads. Given that it takes the average human at least 0.5 seconds to react to anything new, there was no way they could stop if they were only running at the speed limit (as if ). If memory serves this BS took place in Phoenix or Tuscon in the last ten years. I would Google it and post a link but I am taking no chances with this copyright BS.

 

[oldman45]

If it generates revenue from idiot drivers...GOOD!

Any law will generate revenue. A law has two primary functions. The first is to generate money and the second is to put people to work that enforce that law. Beyond that, the law may be good or bad, may increase safety or cause problems for honest citizens.

Traffic cams work great in many areas. In the event of an accident, we usually can get a tape of what happened and video is better than eye witness. They can generate a lot of revenue. They also make a lot of people upset. In some cases, they will cause someone to obey the laws.

However many that disregard the signals fail to pay attention to the cameras. We have traffic cams in this area but they are not for tickets and do not work to catch negligent drivers. They are there so traffic conditions can be monitored. To buy the progam so they would catch the violaters would cost a half million dollars. Then cost for those that have to do the paper work will add to that. It would be years of ticket writing before the city would see a profit and by then the system would be outdated.

The only ones that profit from traffic cameras are the ones that sold the systems to the towns. The ones that loses are the taxpayers.

 

[oldman45]

Not true. What the COMPANY running the cameras AND the city traffic lights did was shorten the yellow to get more revenue. They were on a percentage of the fines. They had stupid stuff like two second or less yellows on 45 MPH roads, and 1 second yellows on 35 MPH roads. Given that it takes the average human at least 0.5 seconds to react to anything new, there was no way they could stop if they were only running at the speed limit (as if ). If memory serves this BS took place in Phoenix or Tuscon in the last ten years. I would Google it and post a link but I am taking no chances with this copyright BS.

Sorry Steve. It will not wash. Get a MUTCD (Manual of Uniform Traffic Devices) and read some. Lights can not even be used to control speed in an area. The formulas for light timing, sequence and lenght is complex and set by law.

If you can prove the times for yellow signals were reduced for cameras, then get an attorney, sue the city and both you and the attorney will become millionnires. It would be simple to do. Just get a copy of the TSI for an intersection for the time before cameras and get one for a date after the cameras were installed. If the light sequence shortened the yellow or did not allow for an all red (traffic for all directions getting a red) then you have your evidence. You can then get awarded damages for driver/pedestrian peril, violation of law (all states adopted the laws contained in MUTCD) and disregard for public safety.

So now for a brief course in traffic engineering. Anything, including cars, move at 1.4666 feet per second per mile per hour. A car moving at 40 miles per hour will basically be travelling at 60 feet per second. The avg person will be able to perceive and react in .75 seconds. Then their reaction starts a chain of events such as braking, be it panic or casual.


If an area has a 40mph speed limit and the driver is doing the speed limit when they see a light go yellow, then they must decide if they have time to stop without being in the intersection when halted or if they can clear the intersection before receiving a red light. Their speed is 60 feet per second, they get a yellow 100 feet from the intersection. They travel 45 feet before applying the brakes. Then it will take them, depending on road friction, type braking, weight distribution of the vehicle and other things, about 75 feet to stop. So now they are stopped in the middle of an intersection and that creates more of a problem.

But the cross streets may be four lanes of 12 feet each and then the driver may be driving a full size auto (17 feet). Therefore the yellow will be set for a car to enter and clear the 48 feet of lanes and allow for a 17 foot long car to clear while making the speed limit.

So seeing a yellow with perception / reaction time from 100 feet prior to the intersection, added to the clearance distance for the intersection, the usual speed (not mph limit) for the area and a few other things tossed in, the yellow will have to last 2.75 seconds.

The problem is I see people having accidents when the light went yellow at a time when they were 200 feet from the intersection so they speed up to make adjustments for the light but get hit due to not having time to clear the intersection. They sue the city saying the light was too short for them to clear the intersection and they lose.

People have perceptions. If you see someone in a Corvette, you perceive them one way, in a Cadillac another, in a beat up truck another and all without knowing them. The same perceptions can be in clothing or many other things. Traffic signals are no different. Many people fail to understand the elements that go into setting times for lights. They also fail to understand that we can determine speed prior to braking as well as at time of crash. So they perceive light sequences to be shortened for whatever reason be it the motorcycle officer sitting in the shade at the intersection or the cameras on the poles just waiting to write them a ticket. People are resistent to change. They continue what they did prior to cameras and they get caught but they blame a perception that the signal was shortened just to give them a ticket.

Also, once the TSI has been written does not stop the monitoring. If we see a lot of accidents at an intersection, we know there is a problem there and we find out why so we can correct it. We also look for changes such as speed limit changes, road construction, lane changes, visibility restrictions and many other things.

When there is a major accident involving a death, people are ready to sue the city for taffic signal problems. We have to stay on top of the issue and adhere to the rules set forth in the MUTCD.

The yellow sequence was not shortened but your perception of it creates the idea it was.

 

[JcMack]

I got a illegal right turn on red camera ticket. $100. The ticket had a picture of my company van and an incident #. Got on their website, keyed in incident #, and there was a short video clip of me making a right turn on red without stopping. It was kind of shock to me as to the "big brother" aspect. I was in the office and called fellow employees over to see my only video experience ever. The spray stuff and similar function clear license covers are are very illegal. My understanding is in Illinois you can loose your drivers license. Nonetheless I tried the spray stuff. Applied it as the instructions directed. Took a picture of the plate, with flash activated, and you could read the plate clear as a bell. I lost my license for three months in '71. 3 speeding tickets. I had a lead foot, and a '65 Corvette that was a cop magnet. The experience was such a PIA that I really try to maintain speed limits since then. People around here are hell bent to get where they're going. On any through street around here people regularly do 10-15 miles over the limit. Where ever I go I'm tailgated by someone that wants me to go faster than the limit. You can't complain of short yellow lights if you rolling faster than system was designed for.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

My guess is that the license plate spray results in more tickets and accidents... drivers thinking they can get away with stuff but finding out the hard way that they can't.

Chattanooga is using speed camera vans from Georgia. You get a pass up to 9MPH over the limit. They get half the ticket revenue. Your check is written to them in Georgia which is kinda weird paying Georgia for speeding in Tennessee. The ticket doesn't go on your driving record. Very effective for slowing down traffic once the tickets start arriving in the mail.

Cameras seem like a lot better way to handle speed and traffic light enforcement than pulling people over in traffic.

 

[Capt Steve]

Sorry Steve. It will not wash. Get a MUTCD (Manual of Uniform Traffic Devices) and read some. Lights can not even be used to control speed in an area. The formulas for light timing, sequence and lenght is complex and set by law.

If you can prove the times for yellow signals were reduced for cameras, then get an attorney, sue the city and both you and the attorney will become millionnires. It would be simple to do. Just get a copy of the TSI for an intersection for the time before cameras and get one for a date after the cameras were installed. If the light sequence shortened the yellow or did not allow for an all red (traffic for all directions getting a red) then you have your evidence. You can then get awarded damages for driver/pedestrian peril, violation of law (all states adopted the laws contained in MUTCD) and disregard for public safety.

So now for a brief course in traffic engineering. Anything, including cars, move at 1.4666 feet per second per mile per hour. A car moving at 40 miles per hour will basically be travelling at 60 feet per second. The avg person will be able to perceive and react in .75 seconds. Then their reaction starts a chain of events such as braking, be it panic or casual.


If an area has a 40mph speed limit and the driver is doing the speed limit when they see a light go yellow, then they must decide if they have time to stop without being in the intersection when halted or if they can clear the intersection before receiving a red light. Their speed is 60 feet per second, they get a yellow 100 feet from the intersection. They travel 45 feet before applying the brakes. Then it will take them, depending on road friction, type braking, weight distribution of the vehicle and other things, about 75 feet to stop. So now they are stopped in the middle of an intersection and that creates more of a problem.

But the cross streets may be four lanes of 12 feet each and then the driver may be driving a full size auto (17 feet). Therefore the yellow will be set for a car to enter and clear the 48 feet of lanes and allow for a 17 foot long car to clear while making the speed limit.

So seeing a yellow with perception / reaction time from 100 feet prior to the intersection, added to the clearance distance for the intersection, the usual speed (not mph limit) for the area and a few other things tossed in, the yellow will have to last 2.75 seconds.

The problem is I see people having accidents when the light went yellow at a time when they were 200 feet from the intersection so they speed up to make adjustments for the light but get hit due to not having time to clear the intersection. They sue the city saying the light was too short for them to clear the intersection and they lose.

People have perceptions. If you see someone in a Corvette, you perceive them one way, in a Cadillac another, in a beat up truck another and all without knowing them. The same perceptions can be in clothing or many other things. Traffic signals are no different. Many people fail to understand the elements that go into setting times for lights. They also fail to understand that we can determine speed prior to braking as well as at time of crash. So they perceive light sequences to be shortened for whatever reason be it the motorcycle officer sitting in the shade at the intersection or the cameras on the poles just waiting to write them a ticket. People are resistent to change. They continue what they did prior to cameras and they get caught but they blame a perception that the signal was shortened just to give them a ticket.

Also, once the TSI has been written does not stop the monitoring. If we see a lot of accidents at an intersection, we know there is a problem there and we find out why so we can correct it. We also look for changes such as speed limit changes, road construction, lane changes, visibility restrictions and many other things.

When there is a major accident involving a death, people are ready to sue the city for taffic signal problems. We have to stay on top of the issue and adhere to the rules set forth in the MUTCD.

The yellow sequence was not shortened but your perception of it creates the idea it was.

Oldman45: PLUS 10! Yours is the most intelligent, coherent and well informed post yet. I was going to respond in similar fashion but could not being to improve on yours. Going back to my original position: If you don't break the law and in so doing endanger lives, you do not get a ticket. IMHO: At least a third of the people out there behind the wheel should never be allowed on the road again. Way too much stupid going on. Frankly I would like to see a red light camera at every major controlled intersection with a one year forfeiture of license for anyone on their second offense. It would not take too long before people would stop running lights.

 

[rjroberts]

As far as yellow shortening, maybe it was and maybe it was not in that specific instance. However, there have been enough cases in which it measurably was shortened. I would suggest that in any jurisdiction in which such cameras are suggested people measure the yellow on just their routes and then measure after installation. I'd like to see a national database of such and maybe there is. It's too much with some of the nonsense.

As far as 2 miles over being a violation, that's for people who live for technicalities. Such people are a bane with their smarmy answers. Yes, I am deliberately insulting someone who thinks that way as that kind makes life miserable. It would be interesting to see how such an individual likes it if we apply strict answers to their lives. "Different" I'm sure. (FYI, in FL 4 miles allowance is statutory; leos,with the exception of some towns where a "2mph" person would be right at home, exercise discretion. Get nutty and you're in trouble; otherwise a warning to slow down and a lecture about the last kid they scraped off the road, is the usual.).

That is to allow for variations in equipment. My car is dead on. Other cars I have had were 5 mph off, new. I asked the dealer if it could be adjusted. But, I've subsequently learned that BMWs are junk anyway.

 

[oldman45]

As far as yellow shortening, maybe it was and maybe it was not in that specific instance. However, there have been enough cases in which it measurably was shortened. I would suggest that in any jurisdiction in which such cameras are suggested people measure the yellow on just their routes and then measure after installation. I'd like to see a national database of such and maybe there is. It's too much with some of the nonsense.

.

If you research this in the news, you will find that the words "may have", "could have" or "possibly" is inserted in the news items.

Other factors come into play such as left turn arrows, speed limit changes along with traffic cameras.

Dallas TX was one of those cities and it was found that 10 intersections did indeed have a shortened yellow cycle. At those same intersections, there were other changes made as the cams were affixed. Some fines were refunded but not due to the shortened yellow but due to the changes not being in effect for 30 days before tickets being written.

Many cities have turned off their cameras since they were proven not to be cost effective. The only ones to profit from traffic cameras are those that sell them.

Also remember that the same people that make the radar guns also make the radar dectectors. They get money from both sides of the issue. Those selling the traffic cams get the money from the sale and the installation. After that, they do not care what the town does with them.

The City of Shreveport Louisiana has cameras at many intersections but they are for traffic conditions and not to write tickets. The City did not feel the cost of the ticket writing programs would be an advantage. FWIW: Notice on interstates in many cities and you will see traffic cams there as well. Ever heard of someone getting a ticket for interstate offenses due to trafic cams?

A good motorcycle officer can write more tickets in a shift than any traffic cam can in a day. There is no need to shorten a light cycle when you can put a motorcyle officer out there a lot cheaper and he will get things other than a signal offense.

 

[lonejacklarry]

A good motorcycle officer can write more tickets in a shift than any traffic cam can in a day. There is no need to shorten a light cycle when you can put a motorcyle officer out there a lot cheaper and he will get things other than a signal offense.

Oldman- I once knew all of the equations you quoted and, as I remember, you are correct.

As far as the quote above, you, again, are 100% on the money. As a bonus for those of you who think we have/had a quota, let me unequivocally tell you: We did not have a quota--they let us write as many as we wanted!

And, yes, we got other things as well. What a great job!!

For you red-light runners out there: Keep in mind that your daughter may be coming into the same intersection at the same time. Think about it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A good motorcycle officer can write more tickets in a shift than any traffic cam can in a day. There is no need to shorten a light cycle when you can put a motorcyle officer out there a lot cheaper and he will get things other than a signal offense.

How many tickets does the average traffic cop write in a year?

 

[oldman45]

How many tickets does the average traffic cop write in a year?

That will depend on the size of the town, the amount of interstate access and just how much the officers can let slide. A good motor cop can easily write 40 tickets a day although 30 would be more an average.

An area dept bought a new H-D and put an officer on it. In just 7 weeks, the officer had written enough citations that would pay the entire cost of the bike, the officers time and give some surplus. Consider the bike will be in service for at least five years with minimal maintence so how much will that generate in income.

 

[Dennis The B]

At least most of these violations...

...involve electronic timing.

In Ohio, the state supreme court ruled that police officers don't have to use radar, or any other device to issue a traffic citiation. They can estimate your speed, and their experience and expertise will stand up in court.

As to the "27 in a 25 zone" citation, a friend of mine was issued a radar citation for doing 66mph in a 65mph speed zone, on I75 in Ohio, just south of Findlay (I saw the actual ticket.). He had to go straight to the magistrate's office and pay. The trooper followed him to insure he got there.

 

[oldman45]

...involve electronic timing.

In Ohio, the state supreme court ruled that police officers don't have to use radar, or any other device to issue a traffic citiation. They can estimate your speed, and their experience and expertise will stand up in court.

As to the "27 in a 25 zone" citation, a friend of mine was issued a radar citation for doing 66mph in a 65mph speed zone, on I75 in Ohio, just south of Findlay (I saw the actual ticket.). He had to go straight to the magistrate's office and pay. The trooper followed him to insure he got there.

There are times when a known distance is used to estimate a speed. If you know the time it took a vehicle to go from point A to point B, then you can tell the speed. Another reason why some officers has a stop watch around their neck.

But visual on a moving vehicle will not be nearly accurate enough to issue a summons.

OK, I admit that sometimes an officer will not use common sense.

But when is sin a sin? Is stealing a small candy bar considered theft?

Driving 66 in a 65 zone is still speeding. If there is a zero tolerance, then a ticket is justified. I would not agree with a ticket for such a speed but that is my personal opinion.

Now if the speeder had an attitude and there was not any other laws violated, he could have deserved a ticket even if it was tossed.