I only read the first page and am so amazed at what I didn't see that I will not waste anymore time on this thread...what I didn't see was that no one sees a problem with road blocks set up to "check your papers"!?!? REALLY???!!!
Traffic Stop
- Thread starter frito1
- Start date
They do "safety checks" in my neck of the woods, 2 or 3 times a year. You would be amazed at the amount of drunk drivers, drug arrests and fugitives are taken into custody during these checks. Those are the major things being looked for here. A lot of warnings are issued for insurance verification or expired license, so not much hassle there. I feel like if they stay true to that mission, power to 'em. There are a lot of folks taken off of the road that have no business being there and therefore possibly untold numbers of lives saved. I have nothing to hide so why should i be troubled by these making the roads safer? Just my opinion.
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Todays Version:
First they came for the hackers.
But I never did anything illegal with my computer,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the pornographers.
But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,
so I didn't speak up
Then they came for the anonymous remailers.
But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the encryption users.
But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,
so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for me.
And by that time there was no one left to speak up.
I can assure you I speak up when they attempt this ploy into disturbing my life.... Arrest me, I'd rather stand up for what I believe than let them get away with it.
Once I was waiting on a MAJOR highway at a traffic jam... I crested a hill and suddenly traffic was stopped and cars were swerving around stopped cars, I had to slow FAST and watch out for the traffic behind me to be sure I wasn't crushed. Semi's were locking up their trailers, and the smell of brakes hung in the air. I thought there must be a heck of a wreck up ahead. I finally made my way to the front and saw traffic cones and traffic being routed into two lanes around a center point. This was a 4 lane highway and it was nearing nightfall. The traffic came to a stop abruptly and there were many near collisions as people realized they had to go from 70mph to a dead stop....
Finally I could see the carnage I knew would be there, only to find a couple of officers 'taking a survey of how citizens use the road' for development purposes.
I was shocked and so mad I couldn't see straight! I said, "You mean to tell me you are stopping traffic on a freeway almost causing accidents and creating a traffic jam for over a mile for a survey? Are you out of your MIND?!?!?!
"Yes sir, please pull into one of the stations up ahead and an officer will take your responses."
I replied, "Your actions will end up killing someone and it amazes me you could be so careless! You can shove your survey up your you know what!" And with that I did the best possible burn-out a mini-van could do and tore off down the road. I was actually hoping one would follow me and stop me because I'd gladly have my day in court.
I came back down that road only a half hour later and the 'survey crew' was gone. Maybe they realized they were going to kill someone. Maybe enough people complained.
I don't know what the answer is, and stopping to check for alcohol is a great idea, but I hope the officers running the show realize stopping traffic on a highway or busy street will cause traffic jams and accidents. They need to make allowances for that.
Once I was waiting on a MAJOR highway at a traffic jam... I crested a hill and suddenly traffic was stopped and cars were swerving around stopped cars, I had to slow FAST and watch out for the traffic behind me to be sure I wasn't crushed. Semi's were locking up their trailers, and the smell of brakes hung in the air. I thought there must be a heck of a wreck up ahead. I finally made my way to the front and saw traffic cones and traffic being routed into two lanes around a center point. This was a 4 lane highway and it was nearing nightfall. The traffic came to a stop abruptly and there were many near collisions as people realized they had to go from 70mph to a dead stop....
Finally I could see the carnage I knew would be there, only to find a couple of officers 'taking a survey of how citizens use the road' for development purposes.
I was shocked and so mad I couldn't see straight! I said, "You mean to tell me you are stopping traffic on a freeway almost causing accidents and creating a traffic jam for over a mile for a survey? Are you out of your MIND?!?!?!
"Yes sir, please pull into one of the stations up ahead and an officer will take your responses."
I replied, "Your actions will end up killing someone and it amazes me you could be so careless! You can shove your survey up your you know what!" And with that I did the best possible burn-out a mini-van could do and tore off down the road. I was actually hoping one would follow me and stop me because I'd gladly have my day in court.
I came back down that road only a half hour later and the 'survey crew' was gone. Maybe they realized they were going to kill someone. Maybe enough people complained.
I don't know what the answer is, and stopping to check for alcohol is a great idea, but I hope the officers running the show realize stopping traffic on a highway or busy street will cause traffic jams and accidents. They need to make allowances for that.
Bratastic007
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At the risk of hijacking this thread, the "I have nothing to hide, so why should I care" mentality can create a slippery slope and be taken to scary extremes rather quickly.
I usually drive the speed limit (or a reasonable amount over) but I'm still opposed to enforcement by speeding cameras. I don't beat my wife either, but that doesn't mean I'm OK with the police putting a camera in my living room.
As a gun owner, would you be opposed to providing a DNA sample every time you want to purchase a firearm? You know, just to be sure you haven't raped anyone recently?
You prevent big oversteps by the government by protesting the small ones.
Rastoff
US Veteran
StanNm19,
You should be concerned because it is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. Just stopping people to check for registrations is an unreasonable search. It is a ploy used by cities to generate revenue. Having the correct paper doesn't make the streets any safer.
Now, had they been looking for a real bad guy, like I incorrectly stated earlier, it would be different.
You should be concerned because it is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. Just stopping people to check for registrations is an unreasonable search. It is a ploy used by cities to generate revenue. Having the correct paper doesn't make the streets any safer.
Now, had they been looking for a real bad guy, like I incorrectly stated earlier, it would be different.
You're right, that was pretty poor planning on a "check point" location. No since in getting people hurt by trying to keep people safe. I still don't know if your act of careless driving was the best way to make your point though. It would have been a shame to injure someone in the process.
I would argue that a public roadway is a little different than my living room.
In my case they didn't search for my documents. They asked to see them. I have given them no reason to search for anything. And if you will go back and re read my posting, I think that I portrayed this particular situation as a situation where they were looking for the "major" infractions. As I stated a lot of warnings were being issued for the less serious stuff.
I am sure that not all of these check points are used the same way as the ones that I have had the opportunity to be witness to. This has just been my experience, and I am not advocating an irresponsible approach to law enforcement at all. I am sure that others have horror stories to tell.
I would argue that a public roadway is a little different than my living room.
In my case they didn't search for my documents. They asked to see them. I have given them no reason to search for anything. And if you will go back and re read my posting, I think that I portrayed this particular situation as a situation where they were looking for the "major" infractions. As I stated a lot of warnings were being issued for the less serious stuff.
I am sure that not all of these check points are used the same way as the ones that I have had the opportunity to be witness to. This has just been my experience, and I am not advocating an irresponsible approach to law enforcement at all. I am sure that others have horror stories to tell.
That's pretty much how it goes here. They pick up a lot of n'erdowells and get 'em off the street. Call it a safety check or whatever, lil sis works for the state police, she says they call them saturation's. I live in a wet county that's surrounded by dry counties, so there's lots of potential to get DUI's caught up in their dragnet. It's usually the county sheriffs, state police, and local PD, the arrest/violation stats are posted in the local newspaper the next day or two. Normally the stops are in non congested areas, if traffic gets to backing up they'll wave enough through to prevent any accidents.
The only time I've seen anything close to profiling/questionably illegal stops is when I attended the state MC rally one year. Every MC leaving the rally was stopped, cars were flagged through. Upside of it was, if you were sober enough to stop your bike and pull out your license, you were sent on your way.
As long as the LEO's are professional, I don't get heartburn about it.
MaximumLawman
Member
Sitz v Michigan was the landmark case that said sobriety checkpoints were legal as long as the stops weren't arbitrary (ie. everyone was stopped, or every third car, etc.) The rationale was not probable cause or reasonable suspicion but rather that the stops were not unreasonable seizures because the right of the motoring public to be free from drunk drivers was more significant than the right of the drivers stopped to be free from the minor and momentary intrusion. I can ALMOST go along with this, but not really......As for roadblocks to check driver license, registration and insurance, I'd say that was unconstitutional if the motorists involved didn't have the opportunity to avoid the the checkpoint or refuse to participate. Incidentally, the US Supreme Court Case notwithstanding, sobriety checkpoints are not considered reasonable seizures in MI.....
I do not have a problem with checkpoints. They sometimes work well and sometimes they are a total waste of manpower.
Our checkpoints around here are advertised beforehand. Some people will avoid the area if they know about it in advance but they are also often the ones that lack current license, insurance or such.
Checkpoints are not meant to be used on an interstate highway due to the danger and high traffic volume.
As to people having to get on their brakes hard for a traffic stop, they are not driving safely. It means they are not paying attention to what is going on in front of them. If one is approaching a hill, they should see people hitting their brakes at the top of the hill and know something is going on. I see people hitting the rear of traffic on interstates simply because they did not see congestion a quarter mile away.
A checkpoint takes a couple minutes of a person's time and is only a minor inconvenience to one with nothing to worry about. That couple of minutes may also serve to take the drunk driver off the road that may be the one that would have hit your family member. It may catch a person with a homicide warrant out on them.
Our checkpoints around here are advertised beforehand. Some people will avoid the area if they know about it in advance but they are also often the ones that lack current license, insurance or such.
Checkpoints are not meant to be used on an interstate highway due to the danger and high traffic volume.
As to people having to get on their brakes hard for a traffic stop, they are not driving safely. It means they are not paying attention to what is going on in front of them. If one is approaching a hill, they should see people hitting their brakes at the top of the hill and know something is going on. I see people hitting the rear of traffic on interstates simply because they did not see congestion a quarter mile away.
A checkpoint takes a couple minutes of a person's time and is only a minor inconvenience to one with nothing to worry about. That couple of minutes may also serve to take the drunk driver off the road that may be the one that would have hit your family member. It may catch a person with a homicide warrant out on them.
BW64
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Same for here in Vegas!! The cops think they're the only ones that should own a firearm!!
Chuck1217
Member
I don't think anybody LIKES it, the question is what are we gonna DO about it? There are so, so many things the govt. does that are simply unConstitutional, unfair, stoooopid. But before I made a ruckus about stopping cars without cause, I would want the govt to stop borrowing money, stop taking it from us working people and giving it to others...even putting God back into our schools (which even teach socialism.) So no, I don't like being stopped like that but.....Sorry, stepped up on to my soapbox.
Super Trucker
Member
I say this with no disrespect in mind, but who in the hell are you to decide what my time is worth?
I drive for a living and "only a few minutes" a few times a day cost me a bunch of money by the end of the year.
On the "it may also list", you COMPLETLY missed that it may also make me late for a delivery, a doctor appointment, picking a child up a school etc. Sorry you FAILED to remember that.
I would like to know how much brainwashing it takes to make a person honestly believe that they can determine what others time is worth?
Fortunatly this doesn't happen much if ever in MI because I would go through the state capital like my *** was on fire to have whoever dreamed up that garbage recalled, fired or whatever needs to happen.
Again I mean no disrespect but your comments really hit a nerve.
dwever
Member
Faulkner
Member
As a LEO I've worked a number of sabriety checkpoints. We always utilize at least eight officers and courtesy and professionalism is key. Our goal is to delay a vehicle no more than 30 to 60 seconds unless there is probably cause to detain a vehicle further. Based on the number of drug and DUI arrests I have made which have made the roadways safer for law abiding citizens (i.e., saved lives) I don't apologize for the slight inconveniance it may cause.
Agreed!
I'll be quite frank and state that I don't like working checkpoints anymore than some members posting here like going through them. In my experience, they're relatively unproductive for the time and manpower they consume. However, it is my opinion that every drunk we get off the highway is a small victory that might just save the life of an innocent traveler.
I ask this of my fellow citizens; are you too important and busy to donate a few minutes of your time to save a life?
I'm going to climb upon my soapbox and say this while I'm at it. I don't set out to be an inconvenience or to trample peoples' rights when I go to work. Before every shift I say a quick prayer and ask the good Lord to protect me, to guide and direct me. To have me go forth and do his work. My intentions are to make my little corner of America a little better for having been there. So a child can sleep in peace tonight without having to worry about his mother's abusive boyfriend terrorizing them. To keep a drunk behind the wheel from destroying a family. To keep evil at bay for those sleeping peacefully under my watch. It might sound corny and perhaps I'm a fool, but its the truth and there are many more like me. As Toby Keth says, "hate me if you want to, but love me if you can."
First off, I doubt you are stopped each day. So any time you are at a checkpoint is going to be minor in the grand scheme of things.
Then will you be one to complain when your vehicle is struck by an uninsured or drunken motorist? Checkpoints get rid of both of these.
I have been through three checkpoints as a motorist. My registration, insurance and license were checked and it took all of three minutes. I am in my late 60's and been driving for over 55 yrs as a licensed driver. For the last 35 yrs, I have been driving over 80,000 miles per yr so the time I have spent at a checkpoint is so small that is is not even a factor. I have spent more time waiting for accidents to be cleared on interstates.
Late for an appointment??? Please, you can do better than that. There are several reasons this will not take place. You are more likely to have a flat tire, a dead battery or an accident than be stopped at a checkpoint. Also, if you are running that late for an appointment, you are likely a procrastinator that puts off doing things until it is making you speed to get where you are going.
What is your time worth? Same as mine. Not much. I make a good living but my time is not worth anything unless it is being measured in hours. You possibly will stand and shoot the breeze with someone for longer in a day than you would be at a checkpoint. It is not the time you spend, it is the way you perceive the time you spent.
Now all this having been addressed, I find people with your viewpoint is usually putting up a smoke screen for something else. The last time I had someone complain about the time (less than 3 minutes) at a check point had a boat loat of drugs in their car that was found after their complaining. The time factor was not an issue, it was what may be uncovered during the stop.
Checkpoints are not running background checks. They simply accomplish what they were set up to do. You should see those that turn around after seeing a checkpoint to avoid some charge.
Always remember, a guilty person complains more than the innocent. At a checkpoint, complain about the time they take and see how long you will be detained for in depth checks which may include a check for warrants.
Packard
Member
In addition I keep (in case of an accident) all information I have to provide to the other driver neatly typed on a piece of paper. That would include my contact address (office), phone number, insurance company name and policy number, driver's license number and plate number for the car, and the registration number.
I have a form I made out for the other driver to provide that same information.
But my insurance company requires a police report with each accident so this becomes redundant.
Super Trucker
Member
Wow just Wow.
ChattanoogaPhil
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All the more reason for the RFID Bio-chip. The authorities can read the data as you pass by. If you have any drugs in your blood that can inhibit driving then you'll be taken off the road. Think of the lives it will save.
ps. Keep an ear out for anyone who complains about the idea of having a RFID Bio-chip implanted. They're likely to be guilty of something.
ps. Keep an ear out for anyone who complains about the idea of having a RFID Bio-chip implanted. They're likely to be guilty of something.
Those airport checkpoints really bother me, they really waste my time.
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cmort666
Member
I pretty much stopped getting tickets when I stopped speeding.
I'm "Japanese" polite toward strangers. I'm NOT friendly, and I make no exceptions for cops or anyone else.
The last time I was stopped by the cops was for driving with my headlights off. My car has "automatic" headlights. Apparently, the streetlights on my street were so bright that the car decided that it was daylight.
During the stop, I acted in accordance with relevant Ohio law. I was polite, but not fawning. I wasn't carrying, so I said nothing about my CHL. I've had more than one person insist that people inform when NOT carrying. If it isn't required by the ORC, I'm not doing it.
If he'd wanted to give me a ticket for having my lights off, so be it. They were out, even if I didn't know it.
