Trainwreck guns for self-taught smithing

[Shotguncoach]

I've decided that I want to learn how to 'smith on Smiths. I'm a decent rifle mechanic and I can make a 1911 run, but I've never been inside a revolver before. Instead of practicing on my nice guns, I decided to pick up some trainwrecks to practice on. So far I've "won" three auctions for a total of less than $350. The plan is to start out small with just cleaning them up and restoring proper function (if possible) and then progressing all the way through fitting barrels, cylinders, refinishing, and hopefully making them into something worth keeping. If I completely hose one or more of them, I'll still have the tools and I'll know what not to do next time.

This isn't a full time thing for me so expect this thread to take a while.

Trainwreck #1 arrived yesterday. It's a 1955 or '56-ish 5 screw pre-model 10 in nickel. From the auction pictures I would guess that it was stored with the same side down for several decades. There is also some nasty looking stuff creeping out from under the grips.

Initial inspection was difficult because it is so gunked up inside that the cylinder has to be pushed open and barely rotates. The action will sort-of cycle but it's rough. Timing is off on every chamber by a significant amount.

Getting the grips off turned out to be the first challenge. Two hours of soaking in Kroil and some effort with a dental pick finally revealed the screw slot. I made an initial check to see if I was lucky (yeah right) but the screw wouldn't budge. Time for more Kroil.

After 24 hours of soaking both ends of the grip screw in Kroil, I started gently rocking the screw back and forth between tightening and loosening. I was one twist away from deciding to clamp the whole thing into the drill press and using the press to help remove the screw when it moved. Constant downward pressure and slow movements got it out.

Surprise, surprise:

The wife and I have a date tonight so this is all for now. The next step will be to scrape off the big hunks and dunk it in a tank of Ed's Red for a few days. Not sure what that will do to what's left of the apparently factory nickel finish (there's an N hiding under all that mung) but that's part of what we're here to find out. I'm also just a bit worried about the sideplate screw that I can't quite see, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

Stay tuned....

 

[kev74]

Nice! I've bought a couple of guns just because I thought they would be fun to fix.

Patience is key! Don't rush, and try not to do anything you can't undo.

Check out Mark Novak 's videos on YouTube. Lots of good info on dealing with what you've got.

 

[austintexas]

Years ago train wreak guns were guns I would jump on in a flash. Not so much any more. Finding parts is a pain, parts prices have sky rocketed. Last gun I fixed was a very early Winchester saddle ring carbine. I finally finished after a year. Took to the range and it would barely stay on a target at 25 yards. Found some one that wanted a period wall hanger.
SWCA892

 

[ReloadforFun]

I don't know their current status, but J&G Sales used to have "gunsmith specials" consisting of guns either missing parts or needing work to restore function. If they still have them, it may provide you with guns to practice on.

 

[drgbike]

Get a copy of Kuhnhausens shop manual. Very in depth just read it all. and good luck on the clunkers its fun but expensive. Dont put much in one unless it can be useful .

 

[Shotguncoach]

I've been a fan of Mr. Novak for quite some time. His plea for a general sharing of knowledge prompted me to set up a private youtube channel to make videos for my kids/grandkids about how to do "stuff".

I agree that parts are expensive, but at this point I'm not really building or repairing guns....I'm learning and building motor skills. That is the true investment.

...and Mr. Kuhnhausens book is in my backpack at the moment. It's quite fun to read that one in an airport. <evil grin>

 

[Shotguncoach]

Speaking of Mr. Kuhnhausen, he recommends a complete inspection upon intake of a new job. Unfortunately this one has too much rust and gunk in it to provide any accurate answers except for "it's a mess".

There is fluffy rust growing out of the hammer and trigger, and what I can see of the interior seems to be filled with orange dirt. The barrel and cylinder both appear to have some pretty good pitting started but I can't really tell yet. Now that the wood is off it's going to get a multi-day bath in Ed's Red, primarily so that I'll have some hope of getting the sideplate off.

Assuming that the sideplate comes off without using dynamite, the next steps will be to detail strip, clean, degrease, and finally to use Mr. Novak's method of boiling and carding to halt the rust. Then it will all go back together and we can see what we're really starting with.

I've read that acetone may not do nice things to nickel, but I'm ok with that. One of my goals is to rust blue the entire gun so the nickel has to come off anyway. If the Ed's Red helps with that I'll be happy. If not, then I'll place an order for the Brownells nickel remover and we'll get to play with that stuff.

 

[drgbike]

Their nickel remover works great. Eastwoods rust converter works also.

 

[rwsmith]

I've learned a little do-it-yourself gunsmithing...

I tried to fix a spring on a Colt revolver (inherited beater) but had a friend to finish it off. I thought the Colt was a little more complicated than Smiths.

I tuned up the magazine interrupter on my Mosin Nagant successfully.

A kid had bought a pump Akkar (Turkish) shotgun (Light and CHEAP). Another kid tried to take it down and reassemble and bent the rails. I fixed it and took it off of him cheap.

I assembled two ARs myself.

I've operated successfully on some malfunctioning 9mm semis and a Llama .380.

Keep your fingers crossed. I'm going to deep clean my revolvers for my nex project. I don't think I'm going to do a complete disassembly, but deep enough to get the job done well. Some of my revolvers haven't even had the grips off in years.

 

[Shotguncoach]

There is always a decision point for me when I start to work on something (or pay someone else to work on it): should this gun be conserved/restored/preserved or is it ok to modify and use?

An example of "keep this one the way it is" was an H&R M1 Garand that I picked up 2 years ago. It had cosmoline and glop all over it so the pictures weren't really clear. Teardown and cleaning revealed an all matching correct grade rifle. That one only comes out of the safe on nice days and is handled extremely carefully.

An "ok to modify" example is my Remington 521-T target rifle. It's in great shape except that somewhere along the way someone drilled and tapped the receiver and barrel for scope mounts with a longer separation than the normal .22 'really close together' mounting locations. That one got a long-bodied Leupold fixed 12x target scope, a bipod, and is my short distance precision practice rifle.

So what about this thing? Should I make the effort to carefully remove the nickel, prep th metal, and then pay to have it replated to bring it back to the original configuration? Or can I tear into it and do whatever I want?

I got my answer after a few minutes with a brass brush:

All it will ever be is a shooter. The right set of stocks will cover that up and make it look OK at the range, but there is no residual value to me now. Anything goes.

Three of the sideplate screws popped loose with minimal effort, but the one that was under the rust is stuck tight. I broke the tip off my #1 screwdriver when I tried to remove that one.

Here are a few more pics from before it went into the dip:

This one will stay in the dip until next weekend. Let's hear some stories of other trainwreck guns while it soaks.....

 

[rwsmith]

Holy Moly!!!

There is always a decision point for me when I start to work on something (or pay someone else to work on it): should this gun be conserved/restored/preserved or is iration than the normal .22 'really close together' mounting locations. That one got a long-bodied Leupold fixed 12x target scope, a bipod, and is my short distance precision practice rifle. t ok to modify and use? ...........


So what about this thing? Should I make the effort to carefully remove the nickel, prep th metal, and then pay to have it replated to bring it back to the original configuration? Or can I tear into it and do whatever I want?

I got my answer after a few minutes with a brass brush:

[
All it will ever be is a shooter. The right set of stocks will cover that up and make it look OK at the range, but there is no residual value to me now. Anything goes.

Three of the sideplate screws popped loose with minimal effort, but the one that was under the rust is stuck tight. I broke the tip off my #1 screwdriver when I tried to remove that one. ........



This one will stay in the dip until next weekend. Let's hear some stories of other trainwreck guns while it soaks.....

That's one that I wouldn't mind working on. It's very unlikely that I could damage it further. I'd call that more of a restoration job.

PS And the inside of frame looks like it could use a lawn mower.

 

[2152hq]

These types of firearms are a great way to learn the trade.
I learned this way and I can't begin to count the number of extreme damaged, rusted, broken, and otherwise busted guns I bought early on to work on.

You can teach yourself most any part of the trade by taking on one of these and rebuilding back to working condition. Plus polishing and refinishing, bluing & add to that the wood/stock trade of making stocks, grips, checkering and finishing.
Making small parts, springs, etc. You don't need to just buy that stuff and become another 'Parts Changer'.
You don't need a Lathe and other expensive machine shop tools when just starting.
Learn to use basic hand tools first. A file is one of the best hand tools ever designed for this trade.

Yes you put untold hundreds of hours and more into these over time and never get the financial value back from those hours if/when you sell it. But the learning experience is priceless if you are really passionate and serious about learning how to do this stuff.

There are so many books, videos, and on-line resources to help in this day that it is much easier to find assistance.

Aside from a couple pre-ww2 books on Gunsmithing and occasional How-To articles in AR and other gun publications, there was nothing much more when I wanted to get into it.

You have a world of resources in front of you on the 'net' these days.
Take advantage of it.

 

[steelslaver]

Great learning gun. Enjoy

 

[colt_saa]

As long as you have the free time that is going to be lots of fun

I used to buy alleged "broken" guns from shops I visited.

Got quite a few nice guns that just had stupid errors.

The one that stands out the most was a Ruger 22 pistol (what folks might call a MK-I). This was a Volquartsen conversion. Pulling the trigger would not release the hammer.

In the shop I noticed that it was wearing MK-II grips.

Since the MK-II left grip is relieved for where the bolt release is located and the 22 (MK-I) has no bolt release, the trigger pin had walked out of the frame to the left. With the trigger pin on an angle, the hammer would not release.

This was back in 2000. A set of original plastic grips was just a bit over $10 from Numerich at the time

To get rid of the PITA pistol, the shop sold it to me for $60

I still shoot it today

I have also bought several finish challenged Model 27s at very, Very good prices because so many older revolver buyers want "collectible" guns. These were mechanically brought up to speed and then engraved which resulted in a re-blue.

 

[Shotguncoach]

I wish I could "like" the post from 2152hq more than once. I have access to a mill and a lathe, but I fully intend to follow your advice and learn to do things by hand first. It's the same way I approach math: it's fine to use a calculator after you learn to write the formula and do the work by hand.

For colt_saa, my best "broken" gun pickup was an online auction several years ago for a Winchester Model 12 Trap that described as "action broken, will not cycle". Here is the hint from the original auction pictures:

At the counter of the shop AFTER the paperwork was finished and it was officially mine, I oriented the pin correctly, inserted the magazine tube fully, locked it into place, and it cycled perfectly. I paid less then $400 for it. It's kind of a nice one.

They guy behind the counter just hung his head and cussed softly.

 

[Liftrat]

Sad to see a fine pistol in such shape, but I'll bet that'll be a fun and educational experience. Thanks for posting, and good luck!

 

[rosewood]

EvapoRust is good at soaking in and removing rust. I do not know what it will do to Nickel. I do know if you sandblast nickel, sparks fly. Kind of neat looking. I have blasted a damaged nickel contender barrel and Cerakoated it. Turned out nice.

Rosewood

 

[Model52guy]

I started with a llama Comanche I bought for $30. Was rusty and locked up. Fixed it am now use it to unload ‘unknown’ reloads.

 

[Banjo 10-79]

Great thread!! I will be eager to read updates and see your progress!

 

[Shotguncoach]

I'd love to be able to give a progress report, but the only progress today was to start cleaning the bench. 'Mise en place' applies to more than just cooking.

My work area is 1/4 of a two-car garage that has 3 workbenches arranged in a square U shape. One side of the U is a workbench with a big Wilton vice, a Dillon 550, and a drill press on it. The other side of the U is another workbench with a Mec Sizemaster, an RCBS Grand, and my shotgun related reloading tools. The 'smithing, cleaning, "stack all the extra junk in it" workbench is at the bottom of the U. Wire racks fill in the corner spaces and hold powder and bullets. Primers are stored away from the powder in a separate area. There's a bookshelf at the end of one bench for dies and manuals. All 3 workbenches have pegboard on the wall behind them for tools and stuff.

At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

Right now the area looks like a survivalist episode of "Hoarders". The 'smithing tools and the reloading tools are all mixed together, parts bags are strewn everywhere like confetti, there is 400 rounds of 9mm in a pile to be boxed up, and the boxes from Missouri Bullet Company are forming a phalanx in the middle to defend themselves against incursions by the Brownells and Midway boxes. It's a disaster.

I picked up 3 metal machinist tool boxes at an estate auction recently (unfortunately all empty) and have started sorting tools and spare parts from the piles into the boxes. The method of adding low cost parts to the cart in order to qualify for free shipping has resulted in some strange accumulations. So far I've found 9 extractors for bolt action Savage rifles, 11 complete 1911 spring sets, and approximately 87 detent pins for AR15's.

At least my kids won't have to buy many parts.

Trainwreck #1 is still happily soaking in a 50-cal ammo can full of Ed's Red in the backyard. Trainwrecks #2 and #3 should be here in a week or two.

Oh hey, another Lee lock stud and cutter set. I'll put it over here with the other four.....