0zzy
Member
Better and lighter trigger makes sure I don't hit the bus full of nuns and school kids behind the BG
Trigger pull modification legal issues
- Thread starter ou1954
- Start date
Before you blindly buy into Ayoobs fear mongering on this subject might I suggest you actually read about the cases that he highlights
In all of them...as of a couple years ago...the trigger issue came up because the shooter said it was a accident or some variation, that puts a whole different spin on the situation than saying "I shot him because of "this reason"
In all of them...as of a couple years ago...the trigger issue came up because the shooter said it was a accident or some variation, that puts a whole different spin on the situation than saying "I shot him because of "this reason"
5 pounds is a far far cry from hair trigger. Hair trigger is just plain irresponsible.
You have a hair trigger, you have no business carrying that gun.
So really you do not have an opposite view at all. Just a common sense non sequitur.
Doc
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self defense gun that is hard to shoot.
Just because you find it hard to shoot does not mean a thing to me. I was a good shot way back when all I had was a double action revolver , for a very long time i counted a double action snub nose 38 sp as my self defense , the wife & I still shoot it well enough that I keep it loaded in the ' retreat to place ' we have incase of home invasion.
You I think started off if not trying to insult people that think differently than you at the very least belittling them.
I have a few hand guns all have different triggers , what I have found about mastering the SD9ve is that it made me a better shot with all of them.
I have guns for fun 1911 & 22 that I would only use for self defense if I had to I have 2 380's & 2 9mm's that are to the wife & myself to use as self defense tools , as deadly weapons I want them to remain in factory condition to insure as much as possible that they continue to be completely reliable.
You seem to complain about people needing more training & I am sure that is true, but also I think you have as many or more people trying to modify their guns that are not qualified to do that either , infact you see a small representation of that here with people asking for help after trying to " improve " it but wind up with a wide range of problems.
To your point about the under trained people with guns I am sure the manufactures are taking this in to consideration & is a big part in why most guns are going to the self defense triggers.
All that said I say ' God Bless America ' where we are ( for now any way ) able to be as different form each other as we like.
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The expression "hard to shoot" I thought would have been clear in the context of the title and original post of this thread as being that of a heavy trigger pull and not that of degree of competence.
Never said I couldn't. Said I would take every advantage able.
You bring up an excellent point though about those doing their own modifications on their self defense guns without the knowledge/skill etc to do so.
It is important enough that I wish it was addressed during the permit process.
I cannot recall any threads that specifically stated that the help they needed in fixing a gun that they were modifying being their carry/self defense gun, but they should be encouraged certainly to get the modification done by a smith if that was indeed the case.
Doc
Never said I couldn't. Said I would take every advantage able.
You bring up an excellent point though about those doing their own modifications on their self defense guns without the knowledge/skill etc to do so.
It is important enough that I wish it was addressed during the permit process.
I cannot recall any threads that specifically stated that the help they needed in fixing a gun that they were modifying being their carry/self defense gun, but they should be encouraged certainly to get the modification done by a smith if that was indeed the case.
Doc
dougb1946
Member
So you are sued. You are still alive. If it's a question of ND, shoot the BG several times to show it was deliberate... My MP has an Apex set up because I shoot straighter with it. The gun is always going to be used to shoot at paper. It may or may not be used for self defense. By definition and use, it is a target gun. Kind of like worrying that your knife is too sharp.
JaPes
Member
This trigger modification discussion always comes up, in every forum, almost on a cyclical basis as the number of new members starts to overcome the number of long time members. Stick around long enough, and you'll know what I mean.
I've been on this Earth for 42 years. In that time, I've made life choices. Some good. Some bad. None of my decisions put me into situations where my life was in immediate danger. None of my decisions put me at the wrong place at the wrong time. I admit that in my young adult years, I engaged in activities with a slightly higher probability of danger: going out to bars, staying out until 5am, doing so in the City of Chicago area. As I got older, I am less inclined to be as social without a purpose.
The only time I will draw my weapon from concealment is if I perceive my life to be in immediate danger and I do not have any viable method of retreat and escape. My carry gun is a tool that will only be employed to defend my life. I will equip that gun with every unfair advantage possible to increase:
1. The precision and accuracy potential of the firearm.
2. My potential for precision and accuracy under stress.
3. The probability that I will survive the engagement with the least amount of physical harm possible.
I've been on this Earth for 42 years. In that time, I've made life choices. Some good. Some bad. None of my decisions put me into situations where my life was in immediate danger. None of my decisions put me at the wrong place at the wrong time. I admit that in my young adult years, I engaged in activities with a slightly higher probability of danger: going out to bars, staying out until 5am, doing so in the City of Chicago area. As I got older, I am less inclined to be as social without a purpose.
The only time I will draw my weapon from concealment is if I perceive my life to be in immediate danger and I do not have any viable method of retreat and escape. My carry gun is a tool that will only be employed to defend my life. I will equip that gun with every unfair advantage possible to increase:
1. The precision and accuracy potential of the firearm.
2. My potential for precision and accuracy under stress.
3. The probability that I will survive the engagement with the least amount of physical harm possible.
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It seems to me that this thread has just about ran it's course. The reason I started it was that there have been so many recent postings about botched "upgrade" events by folks who would be better off with a stock gun.
The other reason is that any modification will take a gun off the applicable state roster, California is the one I know about but three are other states with similar test and certification requirements. If you modify a weapon in those states you are instantly the owner of an illegal weapon.
I should also say that the tests, the California roster tests for example, include drop tests, firing reliability tests, and other tests which help insure the weapon is reliable as well as safe.
It's clear that there are many postings where someone says he modified his gun and then un-modified it because it failed to fire consistently. I won't argue for or against modifying a pistol but simply hope that everyone who posts something like "I just bought an SDxxx and already have the XXXX modification kit on order" would do that knowing the possible consequences.
FYI- The California folks will see that the SD9VE and SD40VE will fall off the CA roster on 1/1/2017. I have no doubt that S&W will renew their registration. There is a way to do a selection on the CA roster so you can. for example, only see guns that have fallen off the roster and a lot of familiar and classic guns have been removed.
The other reason is that any modification will take a gun off the applicable state roster, California is the one I know about but three are other states with similar test and certification requirements. If you modify a weapon in those states you are instantly the owner of an illegal weapon.
I should also say that the tests, the California roster tests for example, include drop tests, firing reliability tests, and other tests which help insure the weapon is reliable as well as safe.
It's clear that there are many postings where someone says he modified his gun and then un-modified it because it failed to fire consistently. I won't argue for or against modifying a pistol but simply hope that everyone who posts something like "I just bought an SDxxx and already have the XXXX modification kit on order" would do that knowing the possible consequences.
FYI- The California folks will see that the SD9VE and SD40VE will fall off the CA roster on 1/1/2017. I have no doubt that S&W will renew their registration. There is a way to do a selection on the CA roster so you can. for example, only see guns that have fallen off the roster and a lot of familiar and classic guns have been removed.
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Just MHO but I think all gun manufactures should stop shiping any guns to Comifornia.
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California gun shipments
Why do you feel that way?
It seems to me that if that were done folks would just drive across a state line and bring in guns.
There is an interesting thing about driving across the border into California, or there was the last time I drove it . . They stop every vehicle and ask if you have any fresh fruit. If you say you do or if you look nervous they actually search your vehicle.
It's almost easier to enter California from Mexico, although I have had my whole vehicle x-rayed, I think just an automatic random selection.
There is one California gun law that is currently not being enforced - Microstamping. The idea is to have the firing pin print a code number on the cartridge. The problem is that folks who don't want their gun to be traced could just file the end of the firing pin and get rid of the embossing. The whole issue is tied up in litigation.
My last S&W gun came with the cartridge from the factory test firing. I don't know what they did with the bullet but it wouldn't bother me if the test bullets were saved and indexed with the gun S/N. That would help track stolen guns that were used in crimes, but we all know it would be easy to mar the barrel to invalidate the pattern on the bullet.
Anyhow, back to the question, I can't see any reason to stop shipping guns to California. It would just increase gun sales in Arizona and Nevada, and at the same time, decrease California sales tax revenue.
If anyone can expand on why shipments to California should stop, please comment.
I brought a rifle* into California when I went into the Navy there in 1954. I later drove my dad's rifle into California when I closed his estate in Arizona. Finally a Son-in-law gave me a .38 handgun I didn't need so I got rid of it. (He had been a bail bondsman and I didn't want anything to do with a handgun that had been acquired by someone in that line of work.)
*Wish I had that gun back. Got it when I was 12 years old. Classic Remington Fieldmaster pump. Real walnut stock.
Why do you feel that way?
It seems to me that if that were done folks would just drive across a state line and bring in guns.
There is an interesting thing about driving across the border into California, or there was the last time I drove it . . They stop every vehicle and ask if you have any fresh fruit. If you say you do or if you look nervous they actually search your vehicle.
It's almost easier to enter California from Mexico, although I have had my whole vehicle x-rayed, I think just an automatic random selection.
There is one California gun law that is currently not being enforced - Microstamping. The idea is to have the firing pin print a code number on the cartridge. The problem is that folks who don't want their gun to be traced could just file the end of the firing pin and get rid of the embossing. The whole issue is tied up in litigation.
My last S&W gun came with the cartridge from the factory test firing. I don't know what they did with the bullet but it wouldn't bother me if the test bullets were saved and indexed with the gun S/N. That would help track stolen guns that were used in crimes, but we all know it would be easy to mar the barrel to invalidate the pattern on the bullet.
Anyhow, back to the question, I can't see any reason to stop shipping guns to California. It would just increase gun sales in Arizona and Nevada, and at the same time, decrease California sales tax revenue.
If anyone can expand on why shipments to California should stop, please comment.
I brought a rifle* into California when I went into the Navy there in 1954. I later drove my dad's rifle into California when I closed his estate in Arizona. Finally a Son-in-law gave me a .38 handgun I didn't need so I got rid of it. (He had been a bail bondsman and I didn't want anything to do with a handgun that had been acquired by someone in that line of work.)
*Wish I had that gun back. Got it when I was 12 years old. Classic Remington Fieldmaster pump. Real walnut stock.
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Comments
I can't find anything in your post that I can adequately and properly address. Your post is very informative, of something, not sure just what that something is.
You profess intimate knowledge of California gun laws. Having returned to Oklahoma after living in California since 1954, I must have misread the applicable statutes. What is your opinion of the ultimate outcome of the microstamping case? Will the state win, or will manufacturers prevail?
Finally, I'm sure the California folks will be very happy to know that they can freely modify their guns. I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.
I can't find anything in your post that I can adequately and properly address. Your post is very informative, of something, not sure just what that something is.
You profess intimate knowledge of California gun laws. Having returned to Oklahoma after living in California since 1954, I must have misread the applicable statutes. What is your opinion of the ultimate outcome of the microstamping case? Will the state win, or will manufacturers prevail?
Finally, I'm sure the California folks will be very happy to know that they can freely modify their guns. I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.
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Who wrote the quoted items in the box in item 36? I didn't write them, I believe you did.
On another subject, I still don't know what "IA" stands for.
Everything you say here is true, accurate, and comprehensive.
If you disagree please respond.
On another subject, I still don't know what "IA" stands for.
Everything you say here is true, accurate, and comprehensive.
If you disagree please respond.
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