Trimming Rifle Brass

[kbm6893]

I’ve been reloading for about 6 years. Many thousands of rounds or handgun ammo without an issue. I’ve been saving all my brass from my rifle shooting but never loaded rifle brass because I don’t feel like trimming the brass. Does rifle brass always need to be trimmed, and is there a motorized trimmer that I can just set to whatever length I need and do it? I do t want to chuck anything to my power drill or anything.

 

[andy52]

You really don't need to trim on every reload and if your shooting bolt guns you can neck size and the brass rarely needs trimming.
there are are several different kinds of power trimmers you can get, I use Little Crow Gunworks for .223 and .308 they're caliber specific and a little pricey but they do a good job and are fast when your doing large numbers of brass. For smaller amounts I just use Lee trimmers that can be put in a drill they're not as fast but they work.

 

[just plain joe]

Not a SME here and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That being said, when reloading for my LaRue 7.62 OBR, I full-length resize and then trim each case so that they are all the same length. Remember, accuracy=consistency & consistency=accuracy. I also full-length resize to ensure functioning in my gas gun.

You may wish to check some forums on the subject of reloading or perhaps the "Sniper's Hide" forum. There are some real SME's there.

As an aside, I normally just use a manual Forester trimmer as, with rifle cartridges, I don't load mass quantities.

Others may know more though. HTH.

JPJ

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

If you are shooting AR type rifles, You can use Taper Crimp die sets (RCBS black box) these also have Small Base Sizing Dies. This is the preferred way for AR cartridges, but not the only way. Case trimming isn't usually an issue, you lose brass at a high rate. It is rare to load the same case 5 times! (I've been shooting Mini-14's since 1982, and AR's since 1996 and reloading since 1979)

When I load for my long distance loads (Bolt Action Rifles), I even trim vergin brass for the whole batch to be exactly the same. I use a L.E.Wilson Case trimmer with the Sinclair International base and micrometer adjuster. Each Family of case uses a different shell holder. This is a repeatable system, meaning you can easily change to a different length cartridge, and then return to what you were working on before! If I pay attention, I can keep brass to within 5/10,000" (.0005") I have 12 of the case holders, allowing me to trim 100's of different rounds! (Example: The 223 case holder will trim: 17 Fireball, 20 Fireball, 221 Fireball, 300 ACC Blackout, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 222 Rem Mag, 6mm, 6.5, & 7 TCU, 204 Ruger, as well as a few oddballs!) You can make round a non-standard length if needed!

The most affordable system and it does a really good job is the Lee system. It has a stem w/ a built in pilot for each cartridge. I have 5 or 6 sets of these in cartridge specific loading kits. You can only trim a round one standard length.

If you are going to use a power adapter for any system. Use an electric screw driver instead of an electric drill! Keep your RPM's below 100!

I also have a couple models of the Forrester Case Neck Trimmer. They make a Regular length (up to long magnum cases). A Classic (for Buffalo and Elephant cases), and a 50 Browning sized (for heavy machinegun and anti-tank rounds!)! This brand uses collets that grip the base; the Regular and Classic each have 4 collets that trimmer specific. This system is the best for case forming and Wildcatting! It has hollow pointing, neck reaming, and neck turning attachments. Won't do cases shorter than 25mm (1")

I currently own and use all of the above. In the past I have owned 7 case trimmers by Redding, RCBS, Lyman, and Hornady. I found them all to be LACKING! This is a lot of expense and effort to have results that very up to .0100"

With the exception of Lee, they are all expensive! But this is a true "Buy Once; Cry Once" situation. Decide what will meet you current and future needs and make the investment. The price of new reloading equipment keeps skyrocketing! I recommend after making your decision, buy all the accessories on sale ASAP. Every trimmer I own has doubled or tripled in the last 10 years! Accessories are up 2 to 5 times also. Invest now!

Ivan

 

[BB57]

A few thoughts:

From a minimalist point of view, you don't *need* to trim your brass until it exceeds the maximum allowable length for the case. When it does, you can then trim it back to the minimum length, which is well under the maximum and you won't have to trim it again for probably another half dozen reloads, which for most high power center fire rounds is the rest of it's useful life.

A variation on that approach is to trim your once fired brass back to minimum length and forget about it, since the case will be worn out before it needs to be trimmed again.

The increase in case length itself is something that happens primarily with bottle necked cases. You rarely see any increase in
case length with straight wall cases like the .375 Win, .38-55 or .45-70 - just like straight wall pistol rounds.



However some folks, from the accuracy fanatic perspective, may want to trim their brass every time in search of the ultimate in consistency.

In the past I used to fret over every advantage I could get in a high power match. I would not only trim the cases, but also turn the necks to ensure they were concentric, ream and deburr the flash hole, sort cases by weight and volume, and index the case from the chamber and through the reloading process. I gained about a quarter MOA doing all that.

Now, I load my precision .308 ammo on my Dillon 550B using a Whidden floating tool head and a BR-3 measure. Runout is rarely more than .001" , my SD in velocity is under 15fps and I get solid 10 shot group 1 MOA accuracy. Half MOA accuracy is nice but at long range in the wind and in the real world, that 1/2 MOA difference is lost in the noise of wind and range estimation errors. So my policy now is to spend more time shooting and less time at the bench.

----

In summary, figure out how you plan to use your rifle and the loads in it, figure out how much it matters to you and then trim accordingly.

 

[rockquarry]

I've used a hand-powered Forster trimmer for about forty years. I use it often for rifle brass trimming and it still works well. Some of the newer powered tools may be faster but I doubt they work any better than the Forster.

I've never seen much need to trim any handgun brass for my purposes, but this will vary from one handloader to another.

What's an SME?

 

[BB57]

In terms of equipment, way back in the day I used a Lee trimmer chucked in an electric drill. They work well by hand to for lower volume.

I evolved to a Lyman trimmer with a hand crank. It let me adjust the length to exactly what I wanted for precision loads.

More recently I added a Hornady case prep trio for deburring, etc.

----

I agree with the comment above on .223 for AR's, AR-180s, Galils, Mini 14's etc.

I'll add that since it's a military caliber and a very popular civilian round, once fired brass is dirt cheap. You can 1000+ cases of .223 commercial brass for about $85 and mixed commercial and military brass can be had for about $55 per 1000+ cases.

With the exception of a few eastern European brands case capacity is fairly consistent and it's one of the few centerfire rifle cartridges where you don't have to sort by head stamp, unless you are looking for something in excess of 1 MOA accuracy.

You can literally afford not to trim .223 cases.

 

[BB57]

What's an SME?

I think he's referring to a subject matter expert.

----

As an editorial comment I'm not a big fan of abbreviations that can be confused. For example the most common meaning of "SME" is small to medium sized enterprise. I'm an actual subject matter expert, able to testify in court in matter in my field of expertise and I've never been called an "SME".

In shooting, I've always found the abbreviations for malfunctions irritating because they are intrinsically confusing and potentially misleading. Does FTF refer to a "failure to fire" or a "failure to feed"? Does FTE mean "failure to extract" or "failure to eject"? Adding another letter would clear things up and improve communication:

FTFR= failure to fire;
FTFD= failure to feed;
FTEX= failure to extract; and
FTEJ= failure to eject.


Don't get me started on slang such as "head", "pill", "projy" and "boolit" when bullet or projectile are the proper terms and not overly long to write.

 

[rockquarry]

I think he's referring to a subject matter expert.

----

As an editorial comment I'm not a big fan of abbreviations that can be confused. For example the most common meaning of "SME" is small to medium sized enterprise. I'm an actual subject matter expert, able to testify in court in matter in my field of expertise and I've never been called an "SME".

In shooting, I've always found the abbreviations for malfunctions irritating because they are intrinsically confusing and potentially misleading. Does FTF refer to a "failure to fire" or a "failure to feed"? Does FTE mean "failure to extract" or "failure to eject"? Adding another letter would clear things up and improve communication:

FTFR= failure to fire;
FTFD= failure to feed;
FTEX= failure to extract; and
FTEJ= failure to eject.


Don't get me started on slang such as "head", "pill", "projy" and "boolit" when bullet or projectile are the proper terms and not overly long to write.

Thank you for the interpretation; never seen "SME" before. I completely agree with your comments. It's apparent that some "modern" communication terms have taken a primitive step in the wrong direction, but the crudity seems to be well accepted by most.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Way back in the 1970's, my High School English teachers said acronyms and abbreviations were just fine, as long as a key was provided! Also, after using the term the first time you could indicate the abbreviation for further use. But the use of texting has left us in a world of OMG's, LOL's, and BFF's.

The only standardized abbreviation in my life that really matters is : SWMBO. She Who Must Be Obeyed!

Ivan

 

[H Richard]

I load for precision, 500+ yard prairie dog shooting. I trim my rifle brass about every other shooting, and neck size only. I use an RCBS bench trimmer that I removed the handle and re[laced with a bolt with the head milled off. I put my cordless drill on this and it makes the job easy.

 

[RWJ]

It all depends on intended use

When my son and I were shooting High Power matches years ago, I broke down and bought one of the Dillon power trimmers, with inter-changeable calibers. We were doing 7.62 and 5.56, and I would set the press up with a RCBS small base die in station 1, and the trimmer in station 3 in the appropriate caliber. I made a spray lube rack with 75 finishing nails, and hit 75 cases at once with spray lube. It made thing go very smoothly and expeditiously, followed by tumble lube, primer pocket swaging with the Dillon tool, chamfering, and finally pocket uniforming with the Sinclair tool on an electric drill. It was a great way to spend a couple of winter nights, and gave us enough cases to last a season. For us it was worth the effort, w sub MOA groups @ 100 yards from the M1A and AR-15.


I just looked at their site, and they've gotten a bit pricey!

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have used the manual Forester for my 22 to 30 cal. since 1969.
You can use electricity if in a hurry but I usually don't go over 100 rifle cases in a sitting.

How much the brass "Works" depends on the pressures that are built up in your loads.
I have fired 30-06 target loads 5-6 times before the case needed trimming
while a full blown hunting load might need trimming and full resizing, right after being fired, in a bad fitting chamber.

Shoulder fit is more important to me, since it can build up high pressures, long before a over long case neck will.
If you shoot a bolt action, you will know something is up, when you
need a little more force to close the bolt on your rifle, to seat the round !!

Generally a case that has been sized and the OAL length is within the +/- trim data, is good to go and safe for most shooters and their weapons.

 

[kbm6893]

Thanks. I have a ton of .223 brass but I’ve never measured it. So if it meets The specs I just deburr or what?

My experience is with straight wall pistol brass and never did anything other than tumble, resize, expand, seat, and crimp.

 

[rockquarry]

Make sure none of it is longer than 1.760". For a bolt-action .223, size just enough that loaded cartridges will chamber. For an AR, you'll likely have to full-length size all brass. Many get by without the use of a case gauge, but if you want 100% chambering reliability, run every piece of sized brass through a case gauge. Takes about one or two seconds per case and well worth the trouble. I use a JP Enterprises gauge, but others may work as well.

Some 5.56 brass has crimped primer pockets. Those need to be dealt with before loading them.

 

[mtgianni]

223 is the one I find that stretches the most. I would trim it once and buy an RCBS "X" die that almost eliminates case stretch. Most of it comes from the die, though a lot tends to come with a semi-auto.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Thanks. I have a ton of .223 brass but I’ve never measured it. So if it meets The specs I just deburr or what?

Most people only own one rifle in a caliber. I own 3 223's (one AR, and two Bolt guns.) When I make ammo, I make it the best I can for one specific gun. But I try to make it fit and work in any gun chambered to that round. So all my ammo gets FL sized or FL Small Base in 223 or 308. FL Sizing may work the brass a bit more. Where Neck sizing comes in, is in Concentricity (meaning: Keep the central Axis of the bullet, the case and the bore in a straight line as possible.) The neck sized case will fill the chamber thereby centering the bullet in the chamber. But neck sizing may cause feeding problems. That Is why we FL size ammo for AR's.

For once fired military 5.56 brass. If you can treat it in this order, it will serve you well.
1) FL size and deprime

2) Remove military primer crimp

3) Uniform primer pocket, and uniform & deburr flash hole

4) Trim to a uniform length (it can be minimum or maximum or anywhere in between just make them the same!)

5) chamfer case mouth inside and out!

*) I like to clean after sizing, but that is optional! This is an optional cleaning location also.

6) prime and load cases per normal

X) Crimping: All these steps are necessary for roll crimping! Steps 4 & 5 are maybe optional for tapper crimping (If already close on case length)

There can be far more to it, but this will get you by!

Ivan

 

[Hasbeen1945]

I’ve used a Forster trimmer since Hector was a pup. My shooting buddy bought a Frankford Arsenal electric trimmer. It’s as nice as it gets.

 

[Nevada Ed]

post #17 is dead on !!;


Many of us not into $$$ or Award games do not mess with the flash hole.........
but a nice round hole the same size and near the center of the case, CAN
improve a group with weighed "Custom" brass, bullets and tight powder weights and OAL.

Did I mention a Custom rifle............... ?? !!

Rifle matches are fun but the real fun really happens at a ...........
ATA Trap shoot, for me , when I was a LOT younger.

Nothing like a 100 round shoot off, for the prize.
Ah;
the smell of powder in the air.

Extra, extra;
5:05 PM Reno time................. it is SNOWING !!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Ah;
the smell of powder in the air.

A'int it the truth!

Ivan