Two more .380s, two more fails

[Rastoff]

There has been much discussion on the M&P forum of the new M&P 380 EZ. There has also been a few threads on the Concealed Carry & Self Defense forum about .380Auto in general. While I'm not alone, I'm sure I've been the most prevalent dissenter of using this cartridge for self-defense. I just don't believe it to be reliable.

As proof of my skepticism, I've mentioned how many I've seen fail in person. In fact, I've stated that I've never seen one go 35 rounds without a failure. Many have responded that their's has been perfect through hundreds of rounds. I believe them, but my personal experience has, sadly, been different.

This weekend saw no change for me. I had another class. Two students brought .380Auto guns and both had at least one malfunction. The really sad part is the course of fire has changed and they only had to shoot 12 rounds. Even so, both had failures and one had multiple failures.

Until something drastic happens, I will continue to recommend not carrying a .380Auto for self-defense. I just don't think they can be counted on. The first round is usually fine. It's getting that second round to feed that's the problem.

 

[STCM(SW)]

And what brand/maker were the .380 auto's?
PPK and know good clones have never failed me in trial shooting....

 

[Marshal Tom]

Now that there are so many viable .9mm pistols that are almost the same size as the .380 autos of the past coupled with the fact that some if not most of the .380's are blow back instead of locked breach design, making them harder to manipulate the slide due to increased spring weight, it makes little sense to me as to why someone wants to carry a .380 over a 9mm which has a bunch more punch. In addition, .380 is harder to find in some cases and is more expensive to buy ammo for.

 

[tops]

My wife has a S&W BG380 and the only thing it won't work with is steel case ammo. It works good with several brands of brass ammo. Her Sig P238 works with several kinds of brass ammo but have never tried any steel case ammo.
My brother has a BG380 and it also works good. Larry

 

[jimmyj]

I have two:
1. Browning BDA .380
2. Glock Model 42 .380

Negative issues

 

[M29since14]

Ditto with my Interarms PPK. And .380 ammunition is better than ever.

More power is almost always better. I could get along with .380 - if I had to. Reliability would not be my main concern.

 

[diyj98]

Till they make a 9mm that's DA or DA/SA and the size of my LCP, I'll stick with it when I need a pocket auto.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I have been shooting and pocket carrying my LCP for over 6 years.

I have no plans to change.

 

[prplbkrr]

Reliability would not be my main concern.

It would if you needed it, and it went click instead of bang!

Everything I have read about a SD gun is it had better be reliable, your life may depend on it.

I am curious what your #1 concern is, and the reason.

 

[Protected One]

Without any reference to the "type" of failure, or any mention of verifying it wasn't caused by the shooter it's difficult to give this much credence.

Like others have mentioned, I have (2) .380's - a bodyguard which serves as a bug for me and a glock 42 that is my wifes primary. Over 4 years and no issues with the glock, and once the firing pin was replaced in my bodyguard the light primer strikes went away I've ZERO issues since. with about 1000 rounds fired.
So count me among those who have no issues with the .380 cartridge.

 

[Truckin]

A few years ago I hit a deer with my truck. I went to put it out of its misery with a shot to the top of its skull with a 380. It did not penetrate the skull so I had to shoot a second time in the heart. I switched to a J Frame after that. I have two LCP and I have had zero issues after they had 250 +\- rounds through them. My disappointment is with the round not the firearm.

 

[growr]

So, what kind of failures were these? FTE? FTF? FT fire? Stovepipe? Student induced?

Randy

 

[kraynky]

My Russian Makarov 380 feeds & shoots to point of aim, as long as I can still see that itty bity front sight. It actually has a pretty good trigger now.

 

[crstrode]

I have a Colt 380 Government Model with about a zillion rounds through it with no more malfunctions than any other gun that I have used over the decades. That is not my EDC, but I'd not have any reservations using it as such.


My better half confidently carries a LCP with great reliability. The LCP is a bit of a handful for me - you gotta hold on tight to that little gun, and it does snap a bit. She loves it and shoots it better than most big guys can with their favorite EDC.

Our go-to target for pocket pistols is a 5-inch steel plate at 10 yards.

I pity the fool that thinks mugging her would be profitable.

 

[BC38]

I have a Colt 380 Government Model with about a zillion rounds through it with no more malfunctions than any other gun that I have used over the decades. That is not my EDC, but I'd not have any reservations using it as such.


My better half confidently carries a LCP with great reliability. The LCP is a bit of a handful for me - you gotta hold on tight to that little gun, and it does snap a bit. She loves it and shoots it better than most big guys can with their favorite EDC.

Yup, my wife shoots my Government Model Colt like a champ. But it is an all steel gun with a locked breech design, rather than a blowback design. The weight of the frame helps ensure that the slide does most of the moving - instead of the frame "bucking" in her hands.

The biggest issue I see with most blowback 380 failures is the so called "limp wristing" problem. You have to get and maintain a really firm grip on these little pocket rockets or you are going to have Failure To Eject (FTE) and Failure To Feed (FTF) issues. Unfortunately a lot of the folks who want to carry these little bitty pocket guns are the people with weaker hands and correspondingly weaker grip. The fact that they have a hard time racking the slide is generally a pretty good predictor of them not having enough hand and grip strength to allow these little guns to operate properly for them.

I've even experienced the FTE/FTF "stovepipe" type failures myself if I let my grip relax. Maintain the solid firm grip to resist movement of the frame, so that the majority of the recoil is absorbed by slide movement (instead of frame movement) and they cycle 100% for me.

Just my perspective based on my experience.

 

[Kanewpadle]

At my buddies gun shop, they sell many LCP’s. He doesn’t try to dissuade them from buying one. But he does tell them that the little 380’s are like putting a V8 in a go cart.

I’ve owned a few different mini 380’s. Never had any problems. But these days I just don’t see the need. I conceal a Glock 43 just as well.

I really like the Sig P232 and the CZ 83.

 

[BC38]

At my buddies gun shop, they sell many LCP’s. He doesn’t try to dissuade them from buying one. But he does tell them that the little 380’s are like putting a V8 in a go cart.

I’ve owned a few different mini 380’s. Never had any problems. But these days I just don’t see the need. I conceal a Glock 43 just as well.

I really like the Sig P232 and the CZ 83.

I couldn't agree more. I only carry my little 380 poly wonder when I absolutely cannot carry anything bigger - like wearing cutoffs and a T-shirt. Any time I have bigger pockets I carry my LC9 in a pocket holster and the 380 stays home - or gets relegated to BUG duty.

 

[ameridaddy]

When I first got my Sig P238 .380, it balked at feeding the flat-nosed lead Buffalo Bore, but a ramp polish made that go away. Since then, it has eaten over 1,000 rounds without a single failure - PMC 95 gr jacketed, Buffalo Bore, Winchester Ranger, and hand loads with plated bullets to match the Ranger velocity.

 

[Borderboss]

At my buddies gun shop, they sell many LCP’s. He doesn’t try to dissuade them from buying one. But he does tell them that the little 380’s are like putting a V8 in a go cart.

I’ve owned a few different mini 380’s. Never had any problems. But these days I just don’t see the need. I conceal a Glock 43 just as well.

I really like the Sig P232 and the CZ 83.

The difference in size between pocket .380s and pocket 9mms are so slight that I can't understand why anyone would trust their life to such an inferior cartridge. Next time you think you can only pocket carry a .380, look at the Kahr PM9/CM9 and tell me how you can't make that work.

 

[alwslate]

I have an even dozen .380s so I guess I do like the .380 ctg. In my
experience in shooting .380 autos over the years they are very reliable
when used with good FMJ ammo and an original magazine in good
condition. I would bet that most malfunctions with the .380 autos that
the OP refers to were with with HP ammo which offers no advantage
for SD with the stubby low velocity round anyway. A well placed shot
with deep penetrating .380 FMJ will most likely result in one "good"
perp.