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Owning both, and originally having the same thought as you, I can say there's quite a difference between pocket carrying a .380 Kel-Tec and a CM9.
Two more .380s, two more fails
- Thread starter Rastoff
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Owning both, and originally having the same thought as you, I can say there's quite a difference between pocket carrying a .380 Kel-Tec and a CM9.
Which brand/type round were you using?
As I said, I’m satisfied with the reliability of my .380, and of several models I’ve been around (always acknowledging a bad example can be made of anything). There are quite a few good ones. Power is my main concern. There’s some there, but not a lot. Truckin makes my point better than I did.
The micro .380s do seem more problematic than the larger models. Some of that is gun/ammunition-induced, and some is user-induced. Sometimes it’s a combination of both. 
There's Truth Here
I've owned two Walther PPK/Ss and both suffered failures to eject with quality domestic FACTORY ammo, to the point that I could not carry these guns for fear they'd fail when needed.
In doing research, I learned that at least with the Walthers, they are designed to function best with European ammo, where it is loaded a bit hotter than domestic ammo. My suggestion to anyone having ejection problems with their 380s, is to try some Norma ammo. Although I have not used it, Buffalo Bore makes a +P loading in .380 ACP. Perhaps you may not want to use it on a regular basis but my guess is that +P ammo, together with a firm grip, should solve extraction/ejection issues.
Another possible alternative is to obtain a reduced strength recoil spring from Woolf Springs if available for your gun.
I've owned two Walther PPK/Ss and both suffered failures to eject with quality domestic FACTORY ammo, to the point that I could not carry these guns for fear they'd fail when needed.
In doing research, I learned that at least with the Walthers, they are designed to function best with European ammo, where it is loaded a bit hotter than domestic ammo. My suggestion to anyone having ejection problems with their 380s, is to try some Norma ammo. Although I have not used it, Buffalo Bore makes a +P loading in .380 ACP. Perhaps you may not want to use it on a regular basis but my guess is that +P ammo, together with a firm grip, should solve extraction/ejection issues.
Another possible alternative is to obtain a reduced strength recoil spring from Woolf Springs if available for your gun.
wingriderz
Member
I have a Keltec .380 that is 9 plus years old has thousands rounds threw it. It was an EDC pocket carry for many years and hours before I retired. Sadly Smith has a real problem with their 380 models. But as far as the O P statements about the .380 round based on Smiths fails is not warranted and not doing any new carry folks justice .I M H O.
My opinion of the .380 ACP handgun, any .380 ACP handgun, is similar to my opinion of the .410 shotgun. Despite the popular zeitgeist that those smaller caliber firearms are much more suitable for women and children, and good "starter" guns, they're actually guns for people of a more advanced skill level. The .410 shotgun is actually an expert's gun when it comes to hunting. Generally sharp recoil, small pattern, and expensive ammunition.
The .380 ACP semiautomatic handgun, regardless of make or model, also has a somewhat sharp recoil, and the shorter barrel gives a limited window for mistake. Its smaller grip size, combined with the sharper recoil, also gives limited margin for error in limp wristing, thus creating the malfunctions of which you speak.
I regularly discourage anyone from purchasing any .380 ACP handgun as a first self defense carry piece. Revolvers such as the 442/642 are much more teachable and less prone to shooter induced errors.
Of course, the above is merely my not so humble opinion. Your mileage may vary . . .
The .380 ACP semiautomatic handgun, regardless of make or model, also has a somewhat sharp recoil, and the shorter barrel gives a limited window for mistake. Its smaller grip size, combined with the sharper recoil, also gives limited margin for error in limp wristing, thus creating the malfunctions of which you speak.
I regularly discourage anyone from purchasing any .380 ACP handgun as a first self defense carry piece. Revolvers such as the 442/642 are much more teachable and less prone to shooter induced errors.
Of course, the above is merely my not so humble opinion. Your mileage may vary . . .
Consider America's aging population and increase in concealed carry. I think that the 380EZ has a place and will/is successful. My wife has MS and could not manipulate the slide on a Glock 19 or pull the trigger on a Chiefs Special. She tried the 380EZ and was able to load and shoot the pistol. It sits next to her bedside. The .380 cartridge is less than ideal for self defense in my opinion, her gun is loaded with ball ammo. I lack confidence in the expanding bullet at 900 fps. Bottom line, a .380 is better in the hand than a call to 911.
S. Hammer
Member
Never had a failure with my Colt Government Model .380. Accurate too. Then I had a Beretta 84FS that couldn't fire more than 5 rounds of ball ammo without filing to feed. Overpriced lemon.
cowboy4evr
Member
My first semi auto was / and still is a Sig P238 . It has been flawless through countless rounds , factory and hand loads . It's a heavier , for it's size 380 so recoil is really pretty mild . It's a hammer fired , single action only gun , like 1911's . It's an easy gun to rack the slide on as well .
The OP mentioned only having to shoot 12 rounds in class . Wow , in the LTC (license to carry ) class I recently attended here in Texas , we had to shoot 50 rounds and could only use either Federal AE or Winchester white box . Regards, Paul
The OP mentioned only having to shoot 12 rounds in class . Wow , in the LTC (license to carry ) class I recently attended here in Texas , we had to shoot 50 rounds and could only use either Federal AE or Winchester white box . Regards, Paul
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Let's compare:
Kahr CM-9
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1
Barrel: 3.0",
Length O/A: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Capacity: 6+1
Barrel: 3.0",
Length O/A: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces
Kel-Tec P-3AT
Caliber .380ACP
Weight Unloaded 8.3oz
Magazine Capacity 6
Overall Length 5.2”
Barrel Length 2.7”
Height 3.5”
Width 0.77”
Weight Unloaded 8.3oz
Magazine Capacity 6
Overall Length 5.2”
Barrel Length 2.7”
Height 3.5”
Width 0.77”
The differences of note would be the weight, with the Kahr being 5.7 oz heavier (empty), .2" longer, and .5" higher.
I've been pocket carrying the Kahr for 15 years and have never had a pair of pants that couldn't easily handle it. YMMV, but when my life is on the line, I'll deal with those slight differences to carry a full power cartridge.
Ziggy2525
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You've brought this up a number of times. Everybody gets their own experience. I had a couple friends that had issues with their .380's. Couldn't get through a mag without some type of failure. I shot the pistols right after them with no issue. Ammo from the same box. Same mags. I'm guessing they were having a problem with their grip.
I don't think .380's are mechanically as unreliable as you do. I do think some .380's are more prone to shooter induced malfunctions than larger caliber semi-autos. If you're seeing shooter induced malfunctions, shouldn't that be something that would be addressed in training?
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My "argument" against the .380 is not about any specific gun. I own a Colt 1908 Pocket series M (built in the teens or early 1920's I believe) that in all the years I've owned it, has functioned 100% - never failed in any way, shape or form. The problem is with the cartridge itself just not delivering enough speed and foot pounds of energy to reliably stop a fight quickly. IMHO the .38 Special (or 9mm in an Auto cartridge) is the minimum.
I can see a .380 being used as a back up gun but would never consider it a primary defense weapon. To each his own.........
I can see a .380 being used as a back up gun but would never consider it a primary defense weapon. To each his own.........
LVSteve
Member
My money is on either:
1) Poor grip
2) Cheap, weak sauce US spec ammo.
I lean towards 2) being most likely. We shoot Fiocchi in our .380s, two Sig 250s, and 2 LCPs. Not one failure, even when at the range with my wife's buddy who is blessed with the hands and grip strength of a 9-year old.
1) Poor grip
2) Cheap, weak sauce US spec ammo.
I lean towards 2) being most likely. We shoot Fiocchi in our .380s, two Sig 250s, and 2 LCPs. Not one failure, even when at the range with my wife's buddy who is blessed with the hands and grip strength of a 9-year old.
Hmmm. I've never had a failure in many of my 3 Sig 232's, with a variety of factory ammo.
Now my daughter's Glock 42 is much more picky and I'm trying to talk her into something else.
Now my daughter's Glock 42 is much more picky and I'm trying to talk her into something else.
One has to question the validity of the OP without specifics, I have 16 years experience with the .380acp in 3 different guns and the only failure was with aluminum ammo in an LCP.
As to the caliber itself, I believe a hit to CNS will work as any other caliber, a hole in the heart will bleed like any other and a thru&thru chest wound has as much chance of air leakage as any 9mm.
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As to the caliber itself, I believe a hit to CNS will work as any other caliber, a hole in the heart will bleed like any other and a thru&thru chest wound has as much chance of air leakage as any 9mm.
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THE PILGRIM
Member
hardknocks
Member
380
LCP ist gen.
Over 1,000 rounds
8 or 9 different brands of ammo.
Zero malfunctions.
Not bad.
LCP ist gen.
Over 1,000 rounds
8 or 9 different brands of ammo.
Zero malfunctions.
Not bad.
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