Two stage trigger options?

[andishdi]

I was at the range yesterday swapping between the 15-22 and my K22 pistol which has a 2-stage trigger upgrade from the factory - going back to the rifle it was clear the trigger is a hindrance and I'm considering options for an upgrade.

I've heard Timney and CMC are great whilst a yellow JP spring by itself is a worthy upgrade, thing is I don't know enough to make an informed decision by myself and I'm guessing they're not necessarily 2-stage units either... Such is the beauty of forums!

It mostly gets static range use but there are plans for some three gun and drill-style competitions but otherwise I'm just looking for something maybe a little lighter but most importantly with 2-stage action.

Your thoughts and a nice description of the action would be great!

Thanks in advance!

 

[GhostMutt]

I agree,
I have the JP springs and it does lighten the factory pull, mine went to about 4 1/2 to 5lb but i am used to shooting a two stage tuned Anschutz match trigger, which breaks at 1.1lb.

There are lots of triggers available, you tube will help your research. I am currently waiting on the arrival into the UK for my upgrade. I went with a single stage with very light pull, which will help me with the rapid fire comp i enter my 15-22 into. I can feel the limitations the factory trigger has and know i can go faster than what it can. Seeing as i dont actually have my trigger yet i cannot really comment on it. Some of the guys on here have the Timney, the CMC and you hear fantastic things about Geissele triggers, then my friend you run into ITAR

I asked the same thing a couple of months back and got some great info
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/413761-opinions-triggers.html

 

[trebor127]

Single stage CMC for me ........no light strikes

but putting in a contained unit, you may get pin walk.....

i bought the KNS anti rotation pin set for the 15-22

keith

 

[andishdi]

Thanks, I read that post... It kinda just made my head spin more and it wasn't clear if most of them were 2-stage or not.

Sounds as if some were saying the JP springs were causing FTFs, I certainly don't want that, also looks aren't a factor as I'd happily stick to what I have now if it could somehow become 2-stage.

I'd best revise my initial wish list;

- Slightly reduced pull weight (not sure what factory is but don't want it too light)

- Drop-in (without additional set-screws etc if possible)

- No reduction in reliability


Also, don't worry so much about ITAR or it being the finest competition trigger in The West... More after a better feel and a bit less weight.

 

[GhostMutt]

Here are a few....two stage triggers. Geissele gets the best reviews and are very highly regarded and very highly priced.

North West Custom Parts

Also ACP shooting offer a trigger tuning/polishing service they specialise in custom 15-22's, Graham is a real nice guy to deal with
Smith & Wesson ?? ACP Shooting

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I'd best revise my initial wish list;

- Slightly reduced pull weight (not sure what factory is but don't want it too light)

- Drop-in (without additional set-screws etc if possible)

- No reduction in reliability


Also, don't worry so much about ITAR or it being the finest competition trigger in The West... More after a better feel and a bit less weight.

Sounds like to me you are describing the CMC. Plus for those like you wanting a 2 stage, they offer that now.

 

[GhostMutt]

More after a better feel and a bit less weight.

Then i'd try the JP springs...i dont get any FTE's and very few FTF's they are more likely the ammo primer because i always get nice dents on the rims.
In my opinion, for what that's worth i would first try the JP springs and see how that works for you, it definitely makes the trigger feel better and slightly reduces weight and then if that doesn't do it for you get the Geissele or CMC two stage triggers. Which one is your call? youtube will help confuse you as to which one

 

[HDHNTER]

Geissele SSA

 

[REARSPROCKET]

Geissele SSA-E along with their longer Colt 901 trigger pin set if your budget allows is a smoking setup IMHO , or a RRA Varmint on the low budget side.

 

[andishdi]

Thanks for the advice, it is beginning to sound like a Geissele or CMC...

Did more reading and watched some videos (bless YouTube!) and still got the impression that there were a few people getting light strikes with the JP3.5 spring set, apparently it was avoidable by getting a red hammer spring than the yellow (JP3.5T)... Potentially a good starting point when paired with a grip adjusting screw to take up any creep (are most people using these?). The only thing with that setup is it only reduced the pull about 1lb and is still single stage but if it's cheap enough (no idea of price yet) then it might be a good start and comparison when moving forward.

 

[rbpwrd240]

I didnt read all the replys but I will say I have the CMC trigger that came with the recently discounted slide frie kits and I am not so happy with it as a trigger. It has very little feel before the break (Face) I have worked with it a bit and I can now find the face but it takes alot of getting used to. As a slide frie "enhancment" it works great and I dont like super soft triggers so the 3.lb break feels good but in all honesty my personal trigger job on my Pellet gun has a better Face.

This gripe is only going to become important if your shooting long distances with high powered scopes where a good/solid feeling break helps you time your trigger pull as you come across your desired target.

 

[andishdi]

More reading has lead me in a different direction again… Whilst I’m not doubting the JP springs are working well for some I’ve read far too many cases of light strikes to go for it, I won’t risk sacrificing even 1% of reliability just for slightly less pull.

It’s now looking like a Geissele G2S or SSA (I don’t want to go too light with the SSA-E) – I like the price of the G2S but buying it in the UK it’s only another £9 to buy the SSA… So, as always, disappointing to see how much something can be purchased for across the pond (would get my friend in CA to send the G2S over in a heartbeat if I didn’t think it’d get him into trouble) and it’s now a case of justifying to myself that about £220 after postage (about $325) is worth it…

 

[GhostMutt]

More reading has lead me in a different direction again… Whilst I’m not doubting the JP springs are working well for some I’ve read far too many cases of light strikes to go for it, I won’t risk sacrificing even 1% of reliability just for slightly less pull.

It’s now looking like a Geissele G2S or SSA (I don’t want to go too light with the SSA-E) – I like the price of the G2S but buying it in the UK it’s only another £9 to buy the SSA… So, as always, disappointing to see how much something can be purchased for across the pond (would get my friend in CA to send the G2S over in a heartbeat if I didn’t think it’d get him into trouble) and it’s now a case of justifying to myself that about £220 after postage (about $325) is worth it…

From what i hear you wont be disappointed Geissele's have a great reputation, its not worth the risk of losing the trigger in either customs or getting a knock on the door, for arms dealing.
Where are you getting it from?

 

[andishdi]

I’ll get it from LanTac, it’s only in Harrogate so almost certainly worth going to pick it up and having a look around the shop whilst I’m there… That’s once I’ve convinced myself I’m going to get £211 worth of enjoyment from it!

The more I read the more I liked the sound of the SSA, I’m sure there are other good ones but I heard nothing but excellent things about Geiselle.

It’s helped me learn more about the subject too and that’s always a big plus… I’ve read up on the JP springs and then the (seemingly controversial) setscrew for trigger creep – I’ll be dodging both of these and going in head first now.

 

[photoracer]

I was at the range yesterday swapping between the 15-22 and my K22 pistol which has a 2-stage trigger upgrade from the factory - going back to the rifle it was clear the trigger is a hindrance and I'm considering options for an upgrade.

I've heard Timney and CMC are great whilst a yellow JP spring by itself is a worthy upgrade, thing is I don't know enough to make an informed decision by myself and I'm guessing they're not necessarily 2-stage units either... Such is the beauty of forums!

It mostly gets static range use but there are plans for some three gun and drill-style competitions but otherwise I'm just looking for something maybe a little lighter but most importantly with 2-stage action.

Your thoughts and a nice description of the action would be great!

Thanks in advance!

2 stage triggers are by nature designed for precision shooting, something the 15-22 is not designed for. Admittedly the Performance Center model comes with a 2 stage RRA trigger (I have one) but it hardly shoots better than the standard models. For three gun shooting you don't want a 2-stage trigger, or to be precise you can use a 2-stage trigger that is setup to feel like a single stage trigger (Geissele Super 3-Gun trigger for instance). For 3-gun type action shooting you want a trigger with a fast locktime and a short reset. That can either be a single stage (JP + Speedhammer, Timney Competition) or a 2 stage with the 2nd stage feel adjusted out (Geissele S3G and maybe a couple others). In 3-gun you have to be able to hit targets at up to 600 yards and at the same time be able to hose close quarter targets with splits as fast as .12s (the 30 rounds in 5s or less test). Pretty much all the triggers that can do that costs from $200 on up, except for the JP + Speedhammer which runs under $150. If you buy it as a kit it comes with both the light spring setup (yellows) and the heavy hammer spring (red). That's in case you get any light strikes in your AR or AR-22 (or 15-22). On a 2-stage trigger like the S3G you can't mix the springs like you can on a single stage. There are lots of good action shooting triggers:
Geissele S3G and SD3G (most used trigger by 3-gun shooters and 15-22 shooters in speed competition)
Timney 3# and 4# Competition (3-gun pros like Greg Jordan use this)
Wilson Combat 3-Gun
AT AR-Gold (makes the AR trigger feel like a 1911 trigger, Jerry Miculek's AR trigger)
Hypertouch 24C (radical design but works well)($$$)
CMC Competition (Chip McCormack's company)(one of the favorite triggers for using an AR Slidefire on the 15-22)
And of course the JP single stage w/Speedhammer ( pros use this one also)

I got to try a number of them before I put one in my 15-22 I used for 3 years in speed steel competition starting back in late 2011 and the one I settled on was the S3G. And when I finally built an AR for 3-gun I went with the same trigger. Right now I own ARs and .22 type ARs with a total of 5 different triggers including 3 on the list plus a Geissele SSA in my SHTF urban assault 5.56 AR and an RRA National Match trigger in my 6.8mm DMR AR. They all do the job I need them to do but they don't cross over to another job that easily. If I had to go with only 1 trigger it would be the Geissele Super 3-Gun. Its the only trigger I have more than one of.

 

[photoracer]

An addendum to above. The reason I mentioned about mixing springs in a 2 stage it this. When I finished the S3G install in my 15-22 I got a trigger gauge reading of about 2.5 lbs. and it worked flawlessly. Looking for an advantage I dug up the pair of JP yellow springs (low power) I previously first installed in my 15-22 PC model and dropped them in the S3G. Ended up with a 1.25# trigger that felt a lot like the Jard match trigger in my LR .308 bolt gun. I used it for 2 months in speed competition without a hitch but I felt in that use it was a safely hazard that could cause an AD in a match. So I tried substituting the red extra power hammer spring from a JP kit in it and found that the trigger would no longer function properly. So I went back to the factory Geissele springs at 2.5# and left it like that.

 

[GhostMutt]

I share that opinion Photoracer, i have a great 2 stage Anschutz match trigger in my precision bolt gun. I wouldn't see the point in trying to rapid fire such a fine tuned trigger. For the 15-22 i am going single stage, because of the very things you described...fast lockup, short reset. Just waiting for the Hipertouch 24C to arrive Its going to be another month apparently

 

[andishdi]

That is serious amounts of information, thank you for taking the time to reply.

Honesty is the best policy here and the truth is I still don't really know what I'm talking about... But I'm getting better!

I just know that as the trigger is today it could certainly be better and as someone who only currently shoots 25m on a 5-lane range (but first mini-comp in a few weeks hopefully) all I get to currently do is shoot a target and for that purpose a 2-stage trigger would no doubt be sublime.

What I'm taking from this is to go watch some competitions, then get my arse kicked in some competitions, talk to people, try triggers and then drop the cash when I'm educated enough to spend it wisely... Or is it just to buy more than one trigger???!

Thanks again for the help guys

 

[GhostMutt]

I'm not sure how long you have had your 15-22, but i would spend a few months getting used to the existing trigger, yeah it isn't perfect but it certainly isn't horrible. I've had mine close to a year, shooting a couple of times a week both indoor and outdoor and entered it into comps, where it has performed very well. I am now getting a trigger upgrade after doing all the other 'pimping out'.

I only noticed the limitations to the stock trigger regarding speed/reset and lockup, the more confident i have become with my 15-22, the more i get to know it, after lots of concerted practice. I am convinced that dropping in a single stage, lighter pull trigger will perfectly suit what i use my rifle for. Rapid fire comps and timed turning targets/barricade matches. I would spend some more time getting to know the beast before you try to tame it.
Just my advice...I would seriously consider the JP springs for a few £, you may be surprised, and if you do get lots of FTF's (which i don't running them) then you have only lost out a few £.
And no i don't work for them

 

[photoracer]

As I have mentioned in older threads here, my first mod to the RRA 2-stage in my PC model was the JP yellow springs. I shot that in speed competition till I got the the point I was shooting so fast the trigger was locking up on me in a really fast stage. I could move the gun and pull the trigger fast enough to shoot 1.6s runs in this particular 5 plate steel match but any faster and the RRA trigger would not reset. That is when I went to the gun show and tried a few demo triggers at a booth. And also when I decided on the Geissele S3G trigger. Next time I shot that match with the S3G trigger I dipped down into the 1.5s range and eventually got to 1.35s as my best with the 15-22 (I am now shooting a different brand of rifle and my best now is 1.21s on the same stage).
But the JP springs is likely all most would need for even some limited speed competition unless you get serious about it.