Unintended Consequences

[Tom Beavert]

My son took a serious fall building a home, several broken bones and a back injury. He was put on oxy. When he got the first reduced script he told the Doc. it didn't handle the pain. Doc told him that was the addiction to the oxy. He took all the meds he had and crushed them, and never looked back.
Be well
Tom B.

 

[Onomea]

Kudos to your son, Tom. Well done.

 

[vonn]

If you are in pain now they just let you suffer. Nurse told me to smoke pot and drink a lot of vodka and she was serious. The overreaction to drug use leaves many suffering long term. Not sure how to handle recreational use that gets many people in trouble.

 

[johngalt]

I feel fortunate that I have never had to take any opiates, no one in my family has become addicted either.

However, I am disturbed that doctors now are letting patients with real pain suffer.

 

[Racer X]

Sorry, is 8% of long term users not a massive number? Even leaving out unreported instances, and their own data of much higher instances of misuse, that is an absolute ton of people. Arguing opiates are not addictive is so out there I'm almost not sure where to go with it.

I never said it wasn't addictive. I just pointed out that according to the CDC it is 8% (maybe up to 12%)

So, lets say 1 in 10. The other 9 get to suffer. We have no say.

I was on increasingly strong doses from 2005 until the end of 2013. I was on MS-contin. Morphine sulfate delayed release. After my hip was replaced 12/6/2013, I was off all opiods in about a month, 6 weeks tops. I didn't get addicted. But now, after 2 motor vehicle accidents, with vertibrae and disk damage, I get nothing. Constant pain. I'm met with "your pain, you're problem"

PT, chiropractic, massage therapy, accupuncture, steroid shots, and nerve ablation. Just won't treat me today for the pain I am feeling today.

Let's do some imaging, wait for the appt, wait for the report, make appt to see neurologist, decide on next steps, make appt for another injection, wait for it to do its thing, call in a month..... You see the issue? Nothing deals with TODAY.

I actually had a woman with stage 4 cancer offer me the pills in her purse when she saw me suffering. She knew she could get more, and had more at home.

They argue "Do No Harm" requires them to not dispense. But mental and emotional harm by not treating, or under treating pain is just as bad. How about suicides from chronic pain, and the depression it causes? That's the ultimate definition of harm in ANYONE'S book.

 

[grover99]

The whole system is a total mess. I broke two ribs in a fall and the ER Dr would only give Tylenol. Next day in great pain saw my personal Dr and he just shock his head and gave me some meds that would work. Took my pills and was fine. My neighbor across the street was a Vet and told the VA he was in great back pain so VA sends him 90 Vicodin a month. He sells them and makes a fine pile of cash. My other neighbor started buying them and after awhile he knows he has to get off them so he commits himself to a rehab center but because the place is full of thugs and gangbangers sent there by the court he leaves after two day because he is afraid of being beat up there.

 

[Skeet 028]

A little story about Narcan and drug users. Working as a PM years ago we had Narcan to use on ODs. We Narcan'd a guy one evening. When he came awake he was thoroughly PO'd.. I was an *** for depriving him of his high(or low in his case). He would have died I think. We almost started CPR on the dude.He wanted to attack us for doing the Narcan. Addictive personalities will not stop without serious help...and to be VERY honest...They have to WANT to quit no matter whether it is drugs alcohol smoking or even beating their significant others. Most really don't want to. I sent some employees to rehab many times. Some actually did quit their addiction. I had a PM back east that has seen people that OD'd more than 4 and 5 times ON PURPOSE. They have been told to do the Narcan drill on the same people 2 times...and not anymore. Some are Od'ing on purpose for a thrill when they get brought back from the edge of eternal darkness

 

[mtgianni]

Read the book Dreamland on how one man saw how best to distribute heroin with only misdemeanor consequences if caught. Xalisco, Mexico became the source families for this distribution idea and many of the youth come to the US to work and get established financially before returning home.
Basically target drug clinics and offer addicts cheaper alternatives than Oxy or other painkillers with mexican brown heroin.

 

[wood714]

I went to a pain management doctor about 6 years ago for a while.

He gave me Hydro, and Soma. Would do a drug test about every 3rd visit. Mine showed clean of Hydro one month.

He told me about it, and said "don't worry about it, you're either taking too many or selling them...I don't care."

 

[dave1918a2]

Those who take opiates legally and in accordance with prescription directions and have a defined need, have My blessing. Those who lie and cheat so They can get high deserve neither sympathy nor compassion and will get none from Me. When I got Oxycodon, I think, for My shoulder surgery I could not believe the guys at work who asked for those I didn't use. I was constantly hounded for them, so one day I took them into the shop and asked those who wanted them to be there. I then dumped the pills into a 900 gallon dip tank and said " have at it ". Not wishing death on anybody, but those using opiates soley for the purpose of getting high would free up a lot of money for people who really need help if They would be so kind.

 

[cmj8591]

Some are Od'ing on purpose for a thrill when they get brought back from the edge of eternal darkness

I have actually seen hard core addicts gather in a group and take turns OD'ing and Narcaning each other. If someone else said that I wouldn't believe them but I've seen it with my own eyes. And to address the other part of your post, just about every person I have been around who had been given Narcan fought when they came out of the high.

To touch on the posts that talk about opioids prescribed for pain resulting in an addiction, when you peel back the layers of the onion, I think you will find that almost all of them were predisposed to addiction. A lot were on the verge of some type of addiction, or had some other addictive behavior before they were ever prescribed a narcotic. I think that the "the doctor caused my addiction" mantra is sometimes used to deflect blame away from the user. I'm not talking about the person who has unrelenting, chronic pain and can only manage it with a narcotic. That is way different than a person who has a condition that is painful, but not chronic, and becomes addicted. Not everyone who take a Vicaden after having their wisdom tooth out is going to become addicted to opioids. Unfortunately, this mindset has interjected politics into how doctors prescribe things. So the politicians who can't figure out how to get the pothole in front of my house fixed, think they have the wisdom to tell my physician how to be a doctor.

 

[Jon651]

QFT.

Narcan is great for bringing people back, but it's just one more consequence for bad behavior that's been eliminated. No consequences = more bad behavior.

Just thought I'd add my own two cents worth here.

Narcan (naloxone) is a great drug and I've saved a lot of lives with it - but it does have some issues. Here are some of the problems I've experienced, seen firsthand, or had to look into as a supervisor:
1. Narcan can wake a patient. And depending on their attitude, they could get ticked off that you just ruined their hundred-dollar high - and want to fight about it!
2. Additional ill-informed decisions on the patient's part are not unknown - like jumping out the back of a moving ambulance!
3. Depending on the patient's level of dependency on narcotics, giving too much Narcan too fast could leave the patient in withdrawal, with all of the associated problems that entails (including possible seizures, tremors, hallucinations, etc.).

Here are a few additional facts about the use of Narcan:
1. If the patient is enjoying a "mixed overdose", remember that Narcan will only work on any narcotics/opiates they may have taken. It will do nothing for that fifth of tequila they also drank, so you may still have more work to do...
2. Depending on the patient's metabolism, Narcan has a therapeutic half-life of roughly 8-20 minutes. Translation - they still need to get taken to the hospital and DON'T LET THEM DRIVE!
3. Our EMS protocols for Narcan administration was "Titrate to respiratory effort only". In other words, we gave it in small increments and monitored the patients breathing. We STOPPED giving it when the patient was breathing adequately on their own, but NOT YET AWAKE. This was to limit the issues listed above.
4. And from a legal perspective, a patient who was revived with Narcan still has enough narcotics in their system to be considered impaired and cannot deliver informed consent. If they argue with you once they are awake, just wait 8-20 minutes...

 

[Nevada Ed]

If you don't have a good insurance plan or a good Doctor...............

you are in deep, do-do!!

That is why a job is a good thing.

 

[Chubbo]

It's been my observation during almost 90yrs., that some unfortunate folks of our society, have a weak constitution, and are perfect subjects for dope addiction, and perfect customers for dope peddlers, regardless of the peddler's title. Those unfortunate, weakly folks, naturally choose dope addiction to stop their pain. Their choice is theirs, alone, Society shouldn't be held accountable for their choice.

I commend The responsible folks, that must rely on narcotics, and their rightful use, to treat their pain.

I feel well qualified to comment on this matter of pain, as I've a list of work, and sport related injuries, that would boggle your minds. I've never let myself become addicted to painkillers, or dope, to alleviate my pain. Over the counter Tylenol, used sparingly, and on occasion, I make John Barleycorn's acquaintance, for pain relief, but never become addicted, to ether. Even had I become addicted, I wouldn't hold society responsible for my actions.

As sad, and heartless as it might sound, the remorse that I feel, is for the overdose families.

The ultimate cause for this terrible problem is, MONEY!

My suggested solution for this problem, would be, Instate meaningful laws, and enforce them! The fault for this predicament, belongs to 'Big Business'. You might ask whom that I call 'Big Business', and Who makes their rules? I'll leave those questions unanswered, as it would, certainly, be deemed political, and gain me an infraction, for sure.

 

[Lt JL]

I heard this from a Medic I believe; he NarCanned a guy who all the other firsts swore was DRT. The guy almost immediately woke up, took a big breath and yelled, "Dude!! You harshed my buzz!!"

 

[Kinman]

I've been in pain most of my life, you suck it up and keep on mov'in on. I busted my back twenty years ago and did not want surgery, got through it with massage therapy and chiropractic, daily pain level not too bad, tolerable and workable. I now see an acupuncturist every other week, haven't felt this good since the incident happened, it doesn't work for everyone but it damn sure works for me. I'm not very sympathetic about people that get hooked on drugs or alcohol, I know both types, my son is probably hooked on pain killers and doesn't even know it because he is on a steady diet of them, he is weak. I don't deal with weak very well but do understand someone suffering with terminal cancer, or an inoperable injury, etc. But when a kid needs Oxycontin to have his cotton pickin wisdom teeth pulled, give me break...suck it up butter cup. If you give the average person a choice between no pain and managed pain therapy they will take no pain every damned time. You need to manage your pain, not eliminate it.