Unique and 44 Mag 240 grain hard cast discrepancy**Update with some Chrono results**

[Rule3]

Alliants data states 7 grs Unique which they list as max for 899 fps.

Lymans cast manual 4th edition lists a start of 10.0 to a max of 11.7.

Now I am used to variances in load data from different sources but this seems to be extreme??

I normally use 2400 but wanted to try a milder load. They are almost the same data for the 250 grain Keith with 2400.??

So, I be a bit confused here.

 

[venomballistics]

Ive seen this more prominent in 45 acp where it seems fewer data sources are taking lead seriously.
in this case we have Alliant saying how low you can go and Lyman saying how far you can push it.
use both .. Alliants start and Lymans redline and Ill bet you'll settle in on something in the 8 grain area.

 

[humphreys220]

The Alliant site is very good, but they always use Speer bullets for their data. This means that the load they list is for the Speer 240 gr SWAGED LEAD bullet, not hard cast lead. I find 10 gr Unique with a Lazer Cast 240 SWC to be a very pleasant load.

Tom.

 

[arjay]

I've been using anywhere from 6 1/2 to 10 grs. of unique with a 240 gr hard cast bblswc in a 44 magnum case with no problems.This is a bullet produced by chey- cast and these rounds have been used in a 629 classic and a Colt Anaconda.

 

[Rule3]

The Alliant site is very good, but they always use Speer bullets for their data. This means that the load they list is for the Speer 240 gr SWAGED LEAD bullet, not hard cast lead. I find 10 gr Unique with a Lazer Cast 240 SWC to be a very pleasant load.

Tom.

Alliants free manual specifically says Cast. As does the online site for the 240 grain cast.

I was going to go with 10grs as well.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Using Unique, you aren't going to get hurt at either end of the data you have. 7gr or 11.7gr.

I was honestly surprised at the last batch of Keith bullets that I shot with 11.5gr. I shot them from the Marlin too and they groups like CRAZY! I had problems with that rifle and lead for a long, long, time. The M629 Classic liked them too. Although, they were NOT a mild load.

Hope this helps!

p.s. What did you decide to load the Keith's I sent you with?

 

[Rule3]

Using Unique, you aren't going to get hurt at either end of the data you have. 7gr or 11.7gr.

I was honestly surprised at the last batch of Keith bullets that I shot with 11.5gr. I shot them from the Marlin too and they groups like CRAZY! I had problems with that rifle and lead for a long, long, time. The M629 Classic liked them too. Although, they were NOT a mild load.

Hope this helps!

p.s. What did you decide to load the Keith's I sent you with?

I also checked in the Speer manual and their data for CAST is within the Lyman range so I set up the powder measure for 10.5 grs.

Skip, to be honest I have not loaded any of those fine Boolits yet They are next up.Honest!

I have been shooting a lot of 40 SW, ringing out two guns. Time to get back to revolvers.

 

[Skip Sackett]

No problemo, friend!

I just got an email confirmation that another shooter got some that I sent him. Seems he uses his 44mag levergun to hunt hogs in Oklahoma and has been pretty successful. I am wondering just how well the 434640HP version works on those critters.

I am super anxious to find out what you think of them too but, I have a little patience.

 

[tops]

10 grs. of Unique and a 240 gr. SWC Laser Cast is a good lite load. I got 1048 fps. out of a 7 1/2 in barrel. I have never checked it in a 4 or 6 1/2 in barrel. Larry

 

[Rule3]

No problemo, friend!

I just got an email confirmation that another shooter got some that I sent him. Seems he uses his 44mag levergun to hunt hogs in Oklahoma and has been pretty successful. I am wondering just how well the 434640HP version works on those critters.

I am super anxious to find out what you think of them too but, I have a little patience.

I have a 44 Mag and 357 Mag, Marlin Rifles, but you sent me 45 Colt and 357 Lead???

I am not factory trained in mold numeration

 

[Ron H.]

Alliants data states 7 grs Unique which they list as max for 899 fps.

Lymans cast manual 4th edition lists a start of 10.0 to a max of 11.7.

Now I am used to variances in load data from different sources but this seems to be extreme??

I normally use 2400 but wanted to try a milder load. They are almost the same data for the 250 grain Keith with 2400.??

So, I be a bit confused here.

Sir, if you'd like to really confuse yourself, go back to Alliant's online guide and look at the page for .44 magnum with a cast 250-grain Keith bullet. The max listed for Unique there is 11.0 grains.

FWIW, my own experiments with .44 magnum, cast 250s, and Unique turned up accuracy "sweet spots" at 8.5 grains and 10.0 grains.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[MMA10mm]

The Alliant site is very good, but they always use Speer bullets for their data. This means that the load they list is for the Speer 240 gr SWAGED LEAD bullet, not hard cast lead. I find 10 gr Unique with a Lazer Cast 240 SWC to be a very pleasant load.

Tom.

BINGO! Good call!

They set such a low max for that bullet because if you push a nearly-pure lead bullet over 850, you get leading. Simple.

 

[358156hp]

I load 300 gr cast with 10.0 gr Unique. It works fine. Lymans "Pistol & Handgun" manual shows 11.5 gr of Unique as being max for Cast bullets up to 275 gr. I've seen "official" data up to 11.5 gr for the 300 gr too, but I need to dig deeper for that particular manual.

 

[Nemo288]

I use 6 grains of Unique and a cast 240gr. SWC for low end target loads.
7.5 grains for a nice accurate mid-range load.
From there I move right up to 23 grains of W296 and a 240 XTP.
I have had good results with 11 grains of Universal and a 210
Sierra JHC. Sadly this bullet is no longer made and I am now
working up a similar load with the Hornady 200 XTP.
Unique and Universal (Clays) are practically interchangeable.
I am moving to the latter.
I am also trying to move both Special and Magnum loads to the lighter
bullets. With the aforementioned Unique loads I have found that
I can just change bullets and still get excellent results.

---
Nemo

 

[Sebago Son]

6.9 Grains of Unique is the "Factory Equivalant" for the ancient .44 Spl Round Nose Lead 246 Grain loading. It's very mild and accurate in both .44 Mag and Spl. cases.

7.5 Grains of Unique with a 240-250 Grain cast Keith SWC was Skeeter Skelton's go to load in his 4" Smith 1950's in .44 Special. I like it in a Magnum case as well.

I have a fixed sighted Model 58- .44 Magnum conversion and finding a load that would shoot to the sights was something of a challenge. I started at 8.6 grains and stepped down in .2 Grain increments. At 7.8 grains I found the right combination.

In this case I was using our fellow forum member Jessie Clark's Tennessee Valley Bullet Company's 243 Grain Cast Round Nose Flat Point.

This load has potential for a mid-range 'everyday' load.

 

[Alk8944]

Rule3,

This is one time I will break my cardinal rule of reading every response post before making a comment.

Different compilers of reloading data have different criteria for determining what they will list as maximum date. Believe it or not, pressure often is not the limiting factor, particularly where Lead bullets are involved whether cast or swaged. It may be leading in their test series or simply an arbitrary "If they want more they can use jacketed bullets".

This is an excellent example of this. I rarely load .44 Magnum to anywhere near maximum performance loads simply because my arthritic and battered hands don't get along well with a lot of recoil. When I do it is with 2400, however Unique is much more often used, or something in the same burning rate range. What I can tell you is that 7.0 gr. Unique with any cast bullet does not even begin to approach maximum pressure levels. I routinely load 9.2 gr. with the 429421 and this isn't close to what is acceptable. Even in .44 Special with the same bullet I generally load 7.2 to 7.5 gr with the same bullet.

I don't think it would be a good idea to exceed the 11.0 gr. that has been mentioned, but in .44 Magnum it certainly is not an excessive load with a 240-250 gr. bullet.

 

[Rule3]

BINGO! Good call!

They set such a low max for that bullet because if you push a nearly-pure lead bullet over 850, you get leading. Simple.

Bingo what? You need to go back and read the data.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

Pistols and Revolvers

44 Rem Magnum

• 240 gr cast LSWC

Regardless both Lyman and Speer list data for hard cast as well as Speer lists also for their swagged bullet which is less.

 

[fredj338]

All data souces will vary, they all use diff components & most important, diff test platforms. You can't expect identical perf levels from a Universal receiver vs a revolver, 4" bbl vs 7 1/2" bbl, etc.

 

[Rule3]

Just for a Update. Went to the range today.

Firearm 7.5" Ruger Super Red Hawk

Mixed Brass, Wolf primers, 240 gr hard cast LSWC

10.5 grs Unique

1210 fps avg
79 ES
24 SD

Easier to shoot and not bad out of the Ruger. 9.5 to 10 should be a pretty comfortable load and still be a "magnum"

Same everything but with 14.5 grs Blue Dot

1340 fps avg
57 ES
16 SD

Much hotter.

Did not Chrony the last batch of 200 gr LRN with 22 grs of 2400. They were a tad stout even out of the tank of a Ruger.

 

[125JHP]

10 grs. of Unique and a 240 gr. SWC Laser Cast is a good lite load. I got 1048 fps. out of a 7 1/2 in barrel. I have never checked it in a 4 or 6 1/2 in barrel. Larry

Not Laser Cast but Regular ol cast 240 LRN the other day gave me 1070 fps out of a 4" 629-4 and 1160fps out of a 6 1/2" 629-4 Classic. Decent accuracy and a snappy recoil and no leading to speak of.