Unleaded - a new Hornady hunting bullet

165gr. is my favorite weight for 30-06. It hits the sweet spot between weight and speed for this cartridge. Something I have wondered is if the longer copper bullets would spoil this "sweet spot" by taking up too much room in the case and maybe requiring a faster twist....

Monolith designs typically don't require as much weight and driven faster as a cup/core designs to achieve the same size wound channel or greater.

It is rare for me to recover monolith bullets wither handgun or rifle.

GMX are a gliding metal as apposed to pure copper.
Remember material selection and bullet design have to be coordinated to achieve expected terminal performance.
 
It's more complex than that.
... I could get better performance by just switching calibers. The thing is I stay with the .308 for longer ranged hunts as I've shot literally tens of thousands of rounds down range 200, 300, 600 and 1000 yards. The 165 gr Game King I use has an almost identical trajectory from 100-450 yards as the 168 gr SMK I use from 200-600 yards. I know the 150 gr SP out of the .30-30 nearly as well.

I buy bullets in bulk 2000+ at a time. If it were just a single box of loaded ammo or a box of 100 bullets per year it wouldn't be a big deal. But that's not the case.

I'll also make the counter argument that shooting bullets with nearly identical trajectories let's me place the 165 gr SMK I'll use on a hunt with lethal accuracy and a very high probability of a lethal first round hit with the animal not going more than 50-100 yards before it's down.

If I were to do 99% of my shooting with lead core bullet on a target range and then use copper solids just for hunting, I would not be able to deliver the same accuracy at the same ranges.

There are unintended consequences that come with that, especially when you scale it up to a state or national policy.

Again, we need to let the technology evolve on its own merits at its own pace. You know, like past advances such as smokeless powder, gilding metal jacketed bullets, spite points, bolt action rifles, etc.

My discussion was meant to be applied to hunting were terminal performance is the most important factor.

Target shooting at distance has a different set of concerns and terminal ballistics takes back seat to external ballistics.

It seems you have chosen based on economics and your situation. What monolithic bullets have you tested? I have a number of folks who have moved to CEB for the competition bullet choose in both 6.5 and 30 calibers.

That said all the top shooters at the 2 mile challenge were all using monoliths.

Cost is the biggest reason those shooting targets at the 600-1200 range use cup/core. Monolith designs have proven as accurate at distance and bullet constancy is better.

Accuracy required is determined by the task at hand- your x ring is 2" when hunting deer or pig and 1/4" when shooting 22 targets.

A perfectly placed shoot with a bullet design that does not make it to the vitals is a failure regardless of the bullets external ballistics ability.

The bottom line the bullet should be choose for intended task, there is no magic one does it all well.

Politics have limited hunters options but not those target shooters. What will come out of this is even more innovation in bullet design and construction which will trickle into target shooting.
 
CX ready

300 Winchester Short Magnum cartridges ready for the
Hornady CX 165gr. Cleaned, Sized, Trimmed and
Stored.

Good talk, thanks again
 

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My discussion was meant to be applied to hunting were terminal performance is the most important factor.

Target shooting at distance has a different set of concerns and terminal ballistics takes back seat to external ballistics.

It seems you have chosen based on economics and your situation. What monolithic bullets have you tested? I have a number of folks who have moved to CEB for the competition bullet choose in both 6.5 and 30 calibers.

That said all the top shooters at the 2 mile challenge were all using monoliths.

Cost is the biggest reason those shooting targets at the 600-1200 range use cup/core. Monolith designs have proven as accurate at distance and bullet constancy is better.

Accuracy required is determined by the task at hand- your x ring is 2" when hunting deer or pig and 1/4" when shooting 22 targets.

A perfectly placed shoot with a bullet design that does not make it to the vitals is a failure regardless of the bullets external ballistics ability.

The bottom line the bullet should be choose for intended task, there is no magic one does it all well.

Politics have limited hunters options but not those target shooters. What will come out of this is even more innovation in bullet design and construction which will trickle into target shooting.

Your two mile challenge example is more or less what I'm talking about - a market where the monolithic bullet offers some distinct advantages. For example the lower density and longer length for a given weight can be a big plus in terms of ogive and tail design and overall BC and transonic stability.

In that application shooters are also using rifles with rifling twist, chamber, leade and cartridge capacity that can all be adapted for the longer bullet.

Making a monolithic solid that is easily revered engineered into existing rifles can be a bit more problematic.

The irony is that old black powder cartridges originally designed for low velocities and comparatively low pressure but comparatively large powder capacity behind longer, heavier bullets can probably make the transition well.

For example Federal's new 150 gr copper .30-30 round is .26" longer than a traditional 150 gr RN nose like Hornady's 150 gr RN, but the case has enough capacity to accept the deeper seating depth (with a suitable powder) and still deliver the same 2300 FPS.

At that velocity the 1-10" twist in the Marlin 336, Savage 99 etc will stabilize it. The 1-12" twist in the Model 94, Model 64, etc will stabilize it under most conditions. However once the ambient temp gets down around 10-15 degrees F stability will be marginal so it's not a great choice in a cold climate.

Not al cartridges and barrel combinations will manage the transition that well.

And then there is still the $50.00-$55.00 per box of 20 for the Gederal Trophy copper load versus the $10-$15 per box of 20 for a traditional 150 gr jacketed round nose factory load in .30-30.

People comment on the bullet being the cheapest part of the hunt. But then again those same folks spend tens of thousands of dollars on a car or pickup and then complain about the price of gas being $3.50 per gallon rather than $2.50 per gallon. It's the same thing.
 
165gr. is my favorite weight for 30-06. It hits the sweet spot between weight and speed for this cartridge. Something I have wondered is if the longer copper bullets would spoil this "sweet spot" by taking up too much room in the case and maybe requiring a faster twist.

Different bullet designs will have a different sweet spot.

Copper in general likes more velocity but does not require as much mass.

I would focus on terminal performance when selecting hunting bullets. terminal performance takes every thing into account and is a function of the bullets design- construction method, construction materials, mass, and velocity.

If you talk to guys who use copper monoliths, particularly the will tell you they seldom recover a bullet- even when using lighter than they would using cup/core design, penetration is a non issue.
 
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