Updated: Model 3 DA, Factory Modified in '49, The SWHF is awesome!

[Modified]

Update; Bill Cross at the S&W Historical Foundation came through big time and made for one heck of a good surprise for me on this gun. Before you read anything else have a look at this letter:

And here are shots of the gun:















Along with the further documents:

edit: Everything appears to be answered, none of this is applicable any more:

So at this point most of my questions are answered.

I do wonder if the Factory installed the frame mounted hammer, that doesn't seem to be mentioned. I wonder if someone else installed that and S&W just bobbed and refinished the hammer? It seems like it would be a pretty odd thing to do. However, the trigger guard was obviously changed after the gorgeous re-finish.

Also, I probably really should figure out who to talk to to finish off the grips properly.


Below is the original text of my first post on this gun:

Just purchased this little gem. There's good things, there's bad things, there's a lot of mystery I'm hoping someone here may be able to help me with.

Here's what I know (or think I know):
* Confirmed it is Chambered in .44 Russian
* Shortened Barrel
* Bobbed Hammer w/ Firing Pin removed
* Firing Pin installed in the frame
* Modified sight (how did they do this?)
* Factory Reblue, probably in July of 1943
* Rounded rear of trigger guard, post re-blue sadly
* Sanderson stocks, maybe originally for a K frame?
* S/N 6482 with that lovely little Star next to it

As to questions regarding this gun I have a few:
1) Has anyone ever seen this hammer conversion before?
2) Any chance the hammer/barrel/sight were factory jobs in 1943?
3) Any of the wood wizards here want to take on the task of finishing the Sanderson fitting/modifications?

 

[steelslaver]

I can't answer your questions, but it looks sweet to me.

 

[loknload]

Can't answer any of your questions but it sure is a neat old piece!

 

[scooter123]

Think about it, S&W was rather occupied with the War Effort in 1943 and it's highly doubtful they were doing ANY repair work in this time period. If this revolver was worked on in 1943 it was almost certainly done by a private gunsmith, perhaps someone who had retired from S&W.

As for what was done at that time, my hunch is it was the barrel shortening and installation of the front sight.

As for the Bluing, for that two periods come to mind when that level of quality in a refinish was common. First is the 1950's after Colt's introduction of the Royal Blue finish. The second is the 1970's, when Dan Wesson and S&W were doing a pretty darned good imitation of Colt's Royal Blue. Yeah, the finish on your revolver looks that good. Considering the quality and current state leads me to believe that it's from a more recent period.

Note, today S&W or Ford's does do Bluing to this level but S&W won't work on an antique and if Ford's did the work it was probably a 2 or 3 year process. If it's a Ford's finish that may have been when the firing pin conversion was done.

Yeah, I think that firing pin conversion is quite recent. Because frame mounted firing pins on revolvers are mostly a somewhat recent innovation. Folks won't ask for something if they don't have any idea it's possible. BTW, whoever did that conversion knew what they were doing because that hammer was color case hardened by a real pro.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

It is a well known fact that the S&W Service Center WAS operating during WWII to fix Customer Guns.I have a 2nd Model .44 Target that went back in early 1945.

 

[Modified]

Yeah, I think that firing pin conversion is quite recent. Because frame mounted firing pins on revolvers are mostly a somewhat recent innovation. Folks won't ask for something if they don't have any idea it's possible. BTW, whoever did that conversion knew what they were doing because that hammer was color case hardened by a real pro.

Somewhat recent? Didn't the 22/32 Heavy Target have it in 1911?

As to the date stamp of 1943 that's a big part of the mystery since we know something was done at it at that time. I can only imagine they were busy but I do know that they did do service work all through the war, so the bluing was something they were doing for civilians at that time.

 

[opoefc]

Whatever work was done on this gun is July 1943 at the factory was done by the Service Dep't. The Army was overseeing the handgun production line making Victory Models, however the Service Dep't still functioned under S&Ws management, repairing S&Ws., etc. Your gun was one of them and the invoice for the work done is probably in the archives at the Springfield History Museum, filed under the name of the person who sent in the gun, and describes what work was done in July 1943. It's possible the factory did the gun smithing to create this snubby for a particular customer ( except for the stocks ) as S&W would usually do anything you wanted to pay for. Drop by the archives at the Museum, dig out the box that says" July 1943 " and tell us what you discover. Ed.

 

[SAFireman]

That looks like someone's pride and joy when they had the changes made. I like it!

 

[Modified]

Whatever work was done on this gun is July 1943 at the factory was done by the Service Dep't. The Army was running the handgun production line making Victory Models, however the Service Dep't still functioned under S&Ws management, repairing S&Ws., etc. Your gun was one of them and the invoice for the work done is probably in the archives at the Springfield History Museum, filed under the name of the person who sent in the gun, and describes what work was done in July 1943. It's possible the factory did the gun smithing to create this snubby for a particular customer ( except for the stocks ) as S&W would usually do anything you wanted to pay for. Drop by the archives at the Museum, dig out the box that says" July 1943 " and tell us what you discover. Ed.

Time to plan a vacation to Springfield!

 

[Widetrack]

When I saw this gun up for auction, I knew immediately that you would be bidding on it. I wanted it but blew too much dinero in Tulsa and knew I wouldn't be able to outbid you. Congratulations! Very exciting and different snub!

 

[damienph]

That looks like someone's pride and joy when they had the changes made. I like it!

Whoever, whenever... That is one beautiful revolver! I have never seen a top break S&W (any brand top break) that looks that good.
I would proudly own that one.

 

[A10]

Too cool! Congratulations!

 

[Boge]

Regardless, I wouldn't shoot smokeless in it as it appears you have done form the looks of the empty cases.

 

[Modified]

Regardless, I wouldn't shoot smokeless in it as it appears you have done form the looks of the empty cases.

Those were just some cases I had laying around. I think they were from a box of random brass I found at a gunshow. I haven't shot this gun yet.

 

[scooter123]

Well, you learn something new every day. I assumed that during WWII every square inch of S&W's facilities was dedicated to the War Effort and private citizens were told they would have to wait until the War ended.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Whatever work was done on this gun is July 1943 at the factory was done by the Service Dep't. The Army was running the handgun production line making Victory Models, however the Service Dep't still functioned under S&Ws management, repairing S&Ws., etc. QUOTE]

Ed
I didn't think the Army took over Smith & Wesson during WWII. I know they did in WWI.

 

[Jim Watson]

The frame firing pin looks like a Christy, a fairly common modification to Colt SAAs back when they were cheap and commonly modernized. Never saw one on a S&W before.

 

[Modified]

The frame firing pin looks like a Christy, a fairly common modification to Colt SAAs back when they were cheap and commonly modernized. Never saw one on a S&W before.

Boy, looking at the few pictures online it sure looks like you hit the nail on the head. Thanks, I had no idea Christy existed before now, looks like they did rather fine work.

Edit: So one thing poking around online down the Christy path was this tidbit; "The design originated with Idaho gunsmith Herb Bradley in the 1930s and was subsequently refined by Christy Gun Works of Sacramento, Calif."

This gun just came from Idaho. Maybe the reason there aren't any or many other S&Ws with this job done to them is that it wasn't Christy that did it, but maybe Herb Bradley?

 

[model3sw]

Looks good to me. Even though I am not a fan of the 1st model .44 DA's (only because the trigger is so clunky and usually wears that the hammer will push off or fall by itself instead of stay securely at the lock back) THIS guy is SWEET ! Come to think of it, what a great way to overcome the soft hammer sear issue. DA only would take care of that OK.

I have a few that were refurbished in the 1943-1945 time frame. As I discovered, it seems civilians had a difficult time getting firearms for home / self protection during war years so they made due with what they had.

I have a 1st model Schofield, Wells Fargo, that letters it had been sent back to the factory in July 1945 to have the finish changed to nickel and at that time the barrel had already been cut to 5" and it was already stamped "Wells Fargo".

I have nothing but praise for S&W Factory Repairs and Refinished pieces. I judge the condition "under" the refinish when grading to attempt a reasonable buy / sell price. I wouldn't walk away from a factory refinish done prior to 1970 if I feel it is, in fact, "the" finish of the date stamped, all the metal and roll stamps are excellent and it is mechanically perfect. In the 1970s, I've examined several factory re-finished in the 1970s (much older guns not the "then" current production) that were less than perfect. I believe the old WWII metal men were retiring out at about that time and the newer men, having no experience with the older models and few parts, did the best they could with what they had. This is solely my belief which I cannot prove one way or the other, just what I "feel".

Unfortunately, the refinish date stamp gives a subsequent owner the opportunity an attempt to legitimize the refinish. For example, a gun refinished many decades ago should have some wear on the finish you'd think while you examine it to find it looks like it was refinished yesterday.

This is a buyer / owner decision that only the interested party should be concerned with. I surely have one or two with a factory refinish / repair date on them that are CLEARLY not "the" factory refinish, e.g. a low 12xxx NM3 cut for stock, that left he factory in blue, Refinished / Repaired in the 1930's, with a finish that is perfect but "brownish-blue", with the prep work not as nice as I would expect the factory to do.

Then again I have a transition American, refinished at the factory in 1923 that has a perfect blue finish that I truly believe is the 1923 finish.

As the brave knight in the Last Crusade said: Choose wisely !

Good advice, I think.

In this case I believe you chose wisely ! Congrats on that find.

 

[BAM-BAM]

That is one sweeeeeeet.....big bore belly gun!!!!!

love the grips!!!!!