Use it and lose it

Part of what I'm pondering is why carry a Kimber DASA if a used Taurus will go bang? Yes I know why I personally prefer certain makes and calibers but I could probably come up with cheaper options if I was to lose it for a period of time.

I'd never let this concern dictate my choices. I carry what I like and can't worry about "what if". It's a precision tool, enjoy and appreciate it - don't let these things rule your choices. It's also replaceable even if such a thing were to happen.
 
If someone ends up dying because an individual legally used their firearm, the firearm will be retained as evidence until all legal proceedings are finished. There always is an exception I guess.
 
I would plan on it being held for at least a little while. That's why I try to have two of my carry guns.
 
I'd imagine if no charges whatsoever are filed against the shooter they would not seize the weapon. Charges filed against the shooter, even "procedural" and they would. Joe

MDPD seized my buddy's G23 from his shooting and he was the victim. It was still seized as evidence.
 
Remember whatever you use won't be available to sell to help fund an attorney. There are plenty of reliable readily available guns to use for self defense.
 
A certain FL homeowner shot a home invader with a .44 Blackhawk and still had it to show off for the evening news report. And the suspect lived, by the way.

So the answer is maybe, maybe not.
 
Many times "special" firearms are simply lost by the department. Be it Game and Fish or FBI. That is why I quit hunting with my aged Win High Wall and bought a Ruger #1.

Friend borrowed my sawed of ( but legal) mod 97 and killed himself. The Sheriff's office would not wipe it off to keep the blood from rusting the metal but after a while I got it back.

Just get a receipt from the officer or department with the serial # and description of anything special about the firearm. Call department, the DA and maybe even the judge every now and then to let them know you are not going away, and want the firearm back.
 
I think the real difference between those who worry about a firearm being seized as evidence and those who don't is income.

Obviously folks who are *ahem* "financially secure" shall we say, aren't concerned by the prospect of losing a high dollar firearm because they probably have no shortage of firearms to replace it with, can afford to go out and buy an exact duplicate, and thusly are less likely to grow attached to their carry gun.
This also explains why so many of them appear to be under the impression that inexpensive firearms are insufficiently reliable for self-defense, because they've either never had to purchase firearms on a budget, or otherwise haven't had to in such a long time that they're basing their expectations of budget-priced firearms on the old "Ring of Fire" guns of decades passed like Bryco/Jennings, Raven, Lorcin, etc.

Meanwhile, those of us who can't afford to easily replace a Colt, S&W Performance Center, Kimber Eclipse or a SIG P22X Equinox, much less an Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk, etc are carrying less expensive firearms which are perfectly suitable for self-defense that we can afford to replace, and more expensive firearms are reserved for the range and are far more precious to us because they have to be saved up for, ergo they're not as easily replaced.

So yeah, if you can easily afford to purchase premium/custom firearms with ease and carry them, thus making the prospect of losing one less of a concern, more power to you, and I'm sure that if everyone could afford to do so, then they would do the same. However, try to understand that not everyone can afford to do that, and that in spite of what your opinions of inexpensive firearms may be, they do tend to go bang whenever the trigger is pulled, so it is indeed possible for someone to successfully defend themselves with inexpensive firearms. In fact, police departments across the globe have been known to carry cheaper firearms such as Glocks or M&Ps, (non-Performance Center) not to mention even cheaper firearms like Rugers.

Now I know that it's highly likely that someone may reply to this with the proposition that if one cannot afford to purchase premium firearms with ease then they most certainly cannot afford the legal expenses of a lawsuit, which is valid, but with all due respect, it goes against pure animal instinct for one to allow themselves to be murdered, and police aren't typically quite fast enough to respond to an impromptu home invasion before anyone has been hurt, assuming that the victim even had enough time to call the police between their door getting kicked in at 3:00am.
Also, as crazy as it sounds, despite lacking money to afford some of the finer things in life, folks do tend to enjoy living just enough to want to go on living, even under harsh conditions such as prisons if it comes right down to it, so although the potential expences and consequences of self-defense may be beyond what the common man is prepared for, we gotta do it anyway.
 
Last edited:
Confiscation means a permanent seizure of property.

Generally speaking, any unattended death will be treated as a homicide until or unless proven otherwise (generally requiring an adjudication by either a coroner, grand jury, or judge, depending on jurisdiction) and any gunshot wound will be treated as an assault until or unless proven otherwise. Any weapon reasonably believed to have been involved in such incidents may be taken into custody pending resolution of the matter, either via investigation or adjudication.

Once a case has been ruled upon and no criminal charges are brought any items of physical evidence in custody may be released to the proper owners.

The above is how things are generally supposed to work. There are those jurisdictions or officials who may tromp all over individual property rights given any opportunity, and violent deaths or grievous injuries provide plenty of opportunities.

I know of jurisdictions in which the standard practice when releasing a firearm is forcing the owner to provide documentation of ownership (sales receipts, etc), and I know of many cases in which valuable firearms have been returned with investigating officers' initials, dates, case numbers, etc, carved or engraved into them (not great for subsequent value). There are also courts that may require owners to file civil actions in court for recovery of property, all done in proper form and at individual expense, of course.

The only time a firearm should be confiscated is upon a court order following adjudication of a criminal case.

I frequently see people comment about fear of carrying a particular (expensive) gun because it may be held in evidence and/or become "lost" while being held.

I wonder how many people have ACTUALLY had this happen to them, and if there are laws regarding compensation to owners for a gun lost while in evidence?
 
I think it's pretty uncommon. Haven't heard about it with a firearm, but my agency was forced to pay for a rather expensive piece of jewelry that was purportedly taken (there remains some doubt about its presence at the scene), along with other property, during an arrest. The jewelry never surfaced, and the Yankee Gov't eventually wrote a check . . .

I wonder how many people have ACTUALLY had this happen to them, and if there are laws regarding compensation to owners for a gun lost while in evidence?
 
Last edited:
I think the real difference between those who worry about a firearm being seized as evidence and those who don't is income.

.

You may be right in some cases.... but from my prospective it's a matter of having the "best" tool for me if my life or the safety of my family is at risk.

The chances of actually using your firearm are very small... not like you're going to be giving up a gun a month or even a year....... it's unlikely you will give up a gun in your lifetime.

I could probably afford some/all of the guns you listed..... but I, for the most part, carry a 3rd Gen S&W or Beretta 92 Compact...... $500-800 guns I bought for way less 25 years, or more, ago. Those are the guns I shoot the most and meet my personal needs.

Ya, I've got a spare in the safe .... that I bought in the 90s for $400 or less.

I just put a higher value on my life or my family's safety than any gun in my safe ..... hell if it came down to the choice of my kid's safety and shooting my Reg. Magnum.... I wouldn't hesitate.

To others my response is; buy the best gun that you can afford and works best for you..... be that a Wilson Combat or a Glock , M&P or Shield. If you have to use it and lose it........ in the end be happy you're around to cry over the loss of the gun vs your child.
 
I always operate under the premise that my gun will be confiscated and quite possibly held for a very long time. That is why I have duplicates of my carry guns. (at least that is what I told my wife).

Side note, my carry guns are not guns whose value I would really be unhappy about losing for an extended period of time. Currently P365's.
 
No matter the circumstances, if you have shot someone, that firearm WILL be seized as evidence at least until the investigation is complete. If the investigating officer doesn't seize the firearm, he is negligent in his responsibility. Evidence not seized initially is either lost all together or compromised at best..../
/...


Someone posted the comment above, and it's very black and white. Arguably a little too black and white. It's the kind of too black and white view of the world that also leads to officers rolling up on a scene and then reacting or overreacting before they take the time to figure out what's happening and what action is needed.

It's emblematic of a risk averse approach to law enforcement focused on controlling the scene as a justification for whatever comes next. It's an "arrest them all and let the courts sort them out" approach to law enforcement, rather than a focus on using appropriate officer discretion and maintaining order.

It's the kind of black and white interpretation that when taken too far results in other people overreacting and screaming to "defund" the police, when what's needed is better training on appropriate use of officer discretion.

---

Let's look at the OP's question from a castle doctrine perspective in NC - and when seizing a weapon for evidentiary purposes makes sense and when it doesn't - because it sometimes doesn't make sense.

In NC, the castle doctrine extends to your vehicle. If you pull up to a stop light, someone tries to pull you out of your car, you are justified in using lethal force to prevent that. It's not about preventing your car from being stolen, it's about the threat to your life when you are being pulled from your car. You have a right to assume they intend to kill you or cause serious bodily injury to you, or to family members or others in your car.

Now...there can always be more to the story and the rest of the story might have an impact on the legality of the shoot. One of the things to consider is that in NC you forfeit the right to self defense if you were initially the aggressor. In the above case, if the you, as the person being pulled from the car had cut off the guy pulling you from the car, got in a verbal argument with him, flipped him off and then threatened him before you proceeded to the next stop light, it's now not nearly as clean. In that case you should expect to be arrested and held until the District Attorney's office can decide whether you should be charged. That decision will hinge on whether or not it can be determined if you had initially been the aggressor and or whether or not your actions after that event were sufficient to constitute a "retreat" that restored your right to self defense. Maybe. Maybe not, it'll all come down to subtle details and an arrest is warranted.

Either way, if you did something like, you are in fact an idiot. If you really plan on carrying a handgun for self defense and want to be able to use self defense as a justification, you need to be very polite and learn how to turn the other cheek, right up to the point that a credible threat of death or serious bodily injury actually occurs, with no aggravating or escalating behavior on your part. An armed society is a polite society - not just because people carry guns, but because they want to preserve the right to use them when necessary.

In that case, since you are being arrested (in large par as a result of being a hot headed idiot) taking custody of your firearm naturally follows. Whether it is evidence or not, the officer(s) at the scene are not going to just leave it there at the scene.

On the other hand if there is no evidence of a precipitating event or you contributing to the events leading up to the shoot, and there are witnesses who saw the guy you shot hanging out on the corner, approaching your car and pulling you out without any provocation, it's a lot clearer what happened and that your use of lethal force was justified.

If the guy you shot happens to have a prior record or outstanding warrants for car theft, assault, etc, it's even clearer.

In the extreme, if you also had your wife and/or children in the car, you also had reason to fear what the guy you shot planned to do with them. If the guy you shot also has a prior record or outstanding warrants for assault, rape, etc, and there are also witnesses who support your statement of what happened, then it's crystal clear.

In this latter case, you should not be arrested and there is also no need to take your handgun into evidence. An officer is certainly justified in securing the handgun at the scene until it becomes apparent what happened. It also makes sense to verify your story in terms of counting and accounting for the spent brass at the scene and cross checking that - and you account of events - by verifying the number of rounds left in the magazine. It also makes sense to document the serial number on the handgun and back it up with a picture of the handgun, magazine and remaining rounds. Then give the gun and his concealed carry permit back with the guy when you send him on his way.

In that case there isn't any real value in confiscating the firearm. There is no evidence you committed a crime (Although that would be different in a state like VA where a self defense shoot requires a second degree murder charge and an affirmative defense).

Worst case, the officer has evidence in the form of one or more bullets in the guy who was shot that can be matched to the gun you documented at the scene at a later date in the unlikely and unforeseen circumstance that evidence arises that it might not have been as clean as you and everyone else involved thought.

That's particularly true with a handgun like a CZ where the serial number is on the frame, the slide and the barrel, precluding the ability to swap slides and barrels to confound future ballistic testing. That effort would in and of itself be incriminating, as would disposing of the gun.

In short, there's not much if any upside to seizing a firearm in a shoot that is clearly a good shoot with ample evidence at the scene to confirm it was a justified use of self defense. Seizing a firearm in that situation is just risk averse butt covering, and once an officer goes down that road, other risk averse people will ensure it takes months or years to return it to the owner.

If that evidence of a clearly justified use of self defense is not present and the status of the shoot is not obvious then the firearm should be taken into evidence, but that will be based on the ambiguous nature of the shoot, or perhaps a clear violation of concealed carry privileges of the shooter, where you'd confiscate the concealed carry permit as well, until the issue is sorted out.
 
Back
Top