Used M&P 9L shoots low?

[LVSteve]

I snagged one of those LEO M&P 9Ls a few months back. Gun had almost no wear so I suspect it spent much of its life in an armory.

Finally got to shoot it yesterday. It groups quite well but shoots 3" low at 5-7 yards with 124gr Blazer Brass and 115gr American Eagle. I forgot to "bench it" over my range bag to eliminate me as the cause, but I shot three other pistols just fine. Also, I don't think I have this issue with my surplus 4.25 M&P 9, although I haven't shot it lately.

Do you think I am having issues with the hinged trigger, or is there something wonky with that gun like an over-high front sight.

 

[Saudade]

What sight picture are you using? These are intended for "combat hold", #3 below.

 

[LVSteve]

What sight picture are you using? These are intended for "combat hold", #3 below.

View attachment 399762

That might be at least part of my problem. This being a US gun I thought it would want #1 or maybe #2. I associate "combat hold" with CZs and the like.

 

[Saudade]

Try them all out and see. Since you're grouping well, I'd focus (no pun intended), on sight picture.

The tall sights allow you to cowitness if you add a red dot later (assuming you get the right one).

Also these guns are zero'd out a bit farther than 5-7 yards so that could be a factor as well.

 

[dla]

It will take a bit of concentration, but force yourself to use sight picture #3 and the gun will magically shoot dead on

The problem comes when you alternate between pistols with different sight setups.

 

[LVSteve]

Try them all out and see. Since you're grouping well, I'd focus (no pun intended), on sight picture.

The tall sights allow you to cowitness if you add a red dot later (assuming you get the right one).

Also these guns are zero'd out a bit farther than 5-7 yards so that could be a factor as well.

This is the older 9L with the SKU 305701, not the latest beast with the tall, holo-sight ready, sights.

Scored a M&P 9L. Some questions

 

[LVSteve]

It will take a bit of concentration, but force yourself to use sight picture #3 and the gun will magically shoot dead on

The problem comes when you alternate between pistols with different sight setups.

Yeah, maybe next time at the range I'll bench the gun using #3 if I get time. Actually, what I have to do use my range bag as a prop as the indoor ranges I use don't have the facility to do seated shooting.

I say "if I get time" because I need to get my wife more trigger time with guns that are easy for her to operate. Mind you, her accuracy was such yesterday that she may find herself back on 22LR training wheels. Don't tell her I said so.

 

[Saudade]

This is the older 9L with the SKU 305701, not the latest beast with the tall, holo-sight ready, sights.

Scored a M&P 9L. Some questions

Ah, not the CORE. Got it. My error.

I bought a 5" ported CORE slide kit for my FS MP9. With my 4.25" slide I still use #3. I added an RMR day one to the 5" so haven't really shot much with just the tall irons.

 

[dla]

Yeah, maybe next time at the range I'll bench the gun using #3 if I get time.

No, don't bench shoot. That's not what that pistol is for. Learn to shoot it standing/sitting/lying but not from a rest.

You have to train your fire control computer (that gap between your ears) to use the correct sight picture and break the shot. And you can't do it from a rest - unless you plan on carrying a rest around with you

 

[bloodlord77]

you could also try using some 147 gr. Ammo. The heavier projectiles print the target higher in my 1.0, and 2.0 9mm. YMMV.

 

[BlackTalonJHP]

I have the same M&P and mine shot low with certain ammo, mostly Winchester. Try different ammo (mine likes Remington) and try shooting at a longer distance. Mine will ring steel gongs at 50 yards with no holdover.
I recommend 115 or 124 grain loads though. I thought about replacing the front sight with a standard front sight from an M&P which is slightly shorter but ammo seems to have fixed the problem.

 

[Rosco Shooter]

Saudade,

Thank you for posting this information regarding the three different sight pictures. I have an M&P 9L as well. I'm going to try Sight Picture Number 3 during my range session tomorrow.

 

[Rastoff]

I forgot to "bench it" over my range bag to eliminate me as the cause, but I shot three other pistols just fine.

Until you bench rest it, we don't know the issue. Even if you shot other pistols fine, the trigger is different. The massive over-travel on the M&P causes a lot of people to shoot low.


For the record, the so called "combat sight picture" is not the correct one for the M&P. In the picture above the 2nd sight picture is the correct one. This has been verified by many shooters from a bench rest.

The reason #3 can't be used is the dot size. Since the picture above is just a cartoon, they've drawn the dots exactly the same size. In real life the dots are physically the same size on the M&P. Therefore, when looking at a real gun, the front dot will appear smaller. So, the three dots cannot be aligned due to the size difference. The real sight picture looks like this:

So, how can you line up the dots?

 

[BlackTalonJHP]

To add to my prior post, I bought my M&P9L LEO brand new. Does yours have the factory 3 dot night sights with the rear sight that doesn't have any serrations?

 

[dla]

Until you bench rest it, we don't know the issue. Even if you shot other pistols fine, the trigger is different. The massive over-travel on the M&P causes a lot of people to shoot low.


For the record, the so called "combat sight picture" is not the correct one for the M&P. In the picture above the 2nd sight picture is the correct one. This has been verified by many shooters from a bench rest.

The reason #3 can't be used is the dot size. Since the picture above is just a cartoon, they've drawn the dots exactly the same size. In real life the dots are physically the same size on the M&P. Therefore, when looking at a real gun, the front dot will appear smaller. So, the three dots cannot be aligned due to the size difference. The real sight picture looks like this:

So, how can you line up the dots?

You don't.
You ignore the rear sight, focus on the front dot placing it where you want the bullet to go. And viola! the bullet goes where the front dot points.

It sort of works the way a peep does in that your eye automagically centers the dot between the other dots. As with a peep, you focus on the front sight.

Where this gets tricky is when you switch back and forth from target sights to 3-dot with different handguns. At least for me it takes a few shots for the fire control computer between my ears to adjust.

BTW, #2 is a target sight hold and that will always shoot low with an M&P.

Imo of course. I'm not an Internet expert - just an old guy with an M&P40 2.0 Compact who hits what he aims at.

 

[misswired]

you could also try using some 147 gr. Ammo. The heavier projectiles print the target higher in my 1.0, and 2.0 9mm. YMMV.

I'll second this point...... also my experience!

 

[LVSteve]

To add to my prior post, I bought my M&P9L LEO brand new. Does yours have the factory 3 dot night sights with the rear sight that doesn't have any serrations?

Yep, that's the one.

 

[LVSteve]

Until you bench rest it, we don't know the issue. Even if you shot other pistols fine, the trigger is different. The massive over-travel on the M&P causes a lot of people to shoot low.

I have to agree on the overtravel. I noticed it dry firing but at the range I was also shooting a Canik TP9 SFL that has minimal overtravel and the difference was very marked. The M&P feels like the trigger disappears into a pit by comparison. Is there an APEX trigger kit in my future?

 

[Rastoff]

You ignore the rear sight,...[/img]Are you serious about this?

BTW, #2 is a target sight hold and that will always shoot low with an M&P.

No, #1 is a target sight picture and used in bullseye shooting. It's called the 6 o'clock hold. That one will shoot low because the M&P is designed for #2 which is called a center hold.

Is there an APEX trigger kit in my future?

If you're ever in the area, I'll let you shoot my M&P 45 with the Apex FSS installed. It takes a really marginal trigger and makes it a good one. Minimal over-travel and very little slack.

 

[scooter123]

I have a Ruger LC9S Pro that does the same with 115 grain target loads. Load it with 147 grain loads and the sights are dead nuts perfect. Simple answer for your issue is to load up some practice ammo using 147 grain bullets. If you aren't reloading yet then do what I did until I put together the components to build my own 147 grain loads. That is to lift the front sight above the rear sight so they produce a pyramid shape. BTW, that is Tennessee Elevation and when used properly in conjunction with Kentucky Windage it allows a country boy to shoot the wing tips off a house fly. Yeah, I probably do watch a little too much Hickok45.