USS John McCain

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I have to shake my head when it comes to how prepared our navy is when two merchant ships can ram two navy destroyer ships. Just makes me wonder how capable are the guided missiles if the ship guidance system can't keep the ship from being hit by a merchant ship.

Leaving radar out of it doesn't the ship have human look out on duty 24/7? How in the heck can a huge ship coming at you be missed but they sure can see little speed boats coming at them? There is something really fishy about this. This is just pushing the BS belief button to far that the BS detector is sounding an alarm.

Last report I read was the ship was heading to port on its own power. Yep let's set a destroyer loaded with guided missiles in a foreign port. HMMM Perhaps that was the plan from the beginning? It has been reported that the US and many foreign countries are conducting their usual training exercises. The US exercise is reported to be in S Korea starting today same day as the eclipse. HMMM there are also reports of possible earth quakes and reports of possible extremely high seas due to the eclipse. Perhaps it would be better to be at port than on open seas.
 
k22fan said:
At least this time the Navy ship had the right of way. If the freighter was on a crossing course it would have seen the John McCain's red running light and been obligated change course to the right to pass astern. Also, if it was over taking it would not have had the right of way.
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The chief of Malaysia's Maritime Enforcement Agency says the collision between an oil tanker and the USS John S. McCain guided missile destroyer early Monday occurred at the start of a designated sea lane for ships sailing into the Singapore Strait, one of the world's busiest shipping lanes.
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Is it possible that there are different "rules of right of way" in the designated sea lane.

Bekeart
 
DWalt said:
I suspect that this second incident may cause repercussions much further up the chain of command than the earlier Fitzgerald incident'

"In summary, you have junior officers aboard destroyers who have very limited time actual under way, who are not promoted on merit or ability, but rather on staying on a prescribed track and not screwing up to the point of being relieved'"

At least in my experience, things are much the same in the USAF. The very first time I had to write up an officer's performance report (on a recent USAFA grad 2nd Lt. working for me), it wasn't a good OPR. I could never understand how he made it through the Academy, basically a Gomer Pyle in a blue suit. The guy should have been driving a bus if he wanted to wear a uniform. Anyway, I wrote it up just the way it was, and did I hear about that in a hurry. It bounced back immediately and I was ordered to change it and to make the kid sound like a hero. Which of course I did. I also found out that there are certain "code" or "bullet" words and phrases required for OPRs, especially Academy graduates. It was a learning experience, mainly in learning that you never make anyone look bad on their OPR, no matter how much he deserves it.
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This was the experience of a former co-worker in the UK over 20 years ago related to an RAF enlisted guy. He was told that if he didn't mark him at least 7 of 9 in all respects the airman's career was likely dead.

I suspect that writing a bad report on a USAF academy grad is tantamount to questioning the system, and that's not allowed. Somehow our system has become the same as the one we were supposed to hate in the USSR.

I had a nephew in the USN and he reckoned there was no way for an officer to be censured short of the guy grounding a ship or knocking up an admiral's daughter.
 
Must be that there are too many smart phones on board and people are texting instead of watching where they are going! This is another huge embarrassment for the US Navy and a tragedy for all the families involved.

I toured an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer in 2014 and was amazed at all the equipment on the Bridge of the ship. The wheel that steers the ship is only about 10 inches in diameter!
 
If you can't see a container ship bearing down on you, how do you expect to see that inbound sea-skimming missile?

I'm thinking this is a little too much like the thug that gets in your face while asking for the time, or the shark that nudges your knee to judge your reaction before taking a bite.
 
I won't comment on the operations on the bridge of a ship, I was never associated with Surface Warfare. What I will say is that in thirty years there have been 10 collisions involving US Navy ships, five in 2017 alone.

Generally speaking, military readiness has suffered because of budgetary cuts, heavy deployment schedules and social engineering. What was said earlier about an officer not even seriously looked at until LCDR is correct, promotions are automatic time in grade up until then. You would have to be seriously screwed-up not to be promoted. Enlisted ranks are different. First Class Petty Officers must not only pass a competitive exam but must be board selected by a service wide selection board. Advancement to E-8 is even more competitive and by board. Advancement to E-9, also by board. So to get to MCPO you must have been selected three times by board.

As far as social engineering is concerned and I don't know if this is still applicable, but when I was in, if a minority or woman was eligible for promotion, regardless of their ranking among peers, you must show just cause not to promote them even over more suitable candidates. I suspect that this is still in effect. This might be "fair" but it sure is detrimental to professionalism and readiness.
 
ladder13 said:
Seems the Chinese were miffed the McCain was in the South China Seas.

Coincidence?
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It's much easier to make an argument for negligence than coincidence. People operating a billion-plus dollar U.S. Navy war ship should assume nothing when to comes to intent or seamanship skills of those operating nearby commercial ships.
 
It is being reported that the bodies of some missing sailors have been found in a compartment. The report also stated that the bodies are being held by Malay authorities and would be identified by the Navy once they were returned. This makes no sense to me. I would think the Navy had jurisdiction over Navy personnel.
 
OLDNAVYMCPO said:
It is being reported that the bodies of some missing sailors have been found in a compartment. The report also stated that the bodies are being held by Malay authorities and would be identified by the Navy once they were returned. This makes no sense to me. I would think the Navy had jurisdiction over Navy personnel.
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I saw a report from a German news station that said a body and other human remains had been found aboard ship. Additionally, there is a multinational search at sea that recovered remains. Those remains are awaiting identification by authorities before possibly being repatriated.
 
OLDNAVYMCPO said:
It is being reported that the bodies of some missing sailors have been found in a compartment. The report also stated that the bodies are being held by Malay authorities and would be identified by the Navy once they were returned. This makes no sense to me. I would think the Navy had jurisdiction over Navy personnel.
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What you read may have been poorly worded. Moving bodies to a Malay morgue cleared out the navy's freezers for food and made life more pleasant for navy cooks. Worded differently this could be seen as a courtesy. Alternatively, if the tanker's captain is going to be prosecuted by Malay authorities then the bodies might be evidence. If the U.S. was not getting along very well with Malay then you'd have a point.
 
WE BEEPED THE HORN, THEY DIDN'T MOVE.

With todays technology, how in the wide world of sports is this even possible? Alarms must have been sounding, Playing chicken??? Maybe go old school with a lookout up in a crows nest."BIG BOAT DEAD AHEAD"!!!
 
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Came close a few times, while I was in service 91-95. Usually at night, or very early morning, on the surface. All were caused by over reliance on other watch standers. The Lookout will see an approaching ship, the radar operator will "call the contact", The CON Officer will see something through the periscope, The Sonar watch will hear any contacts. Meanwhile nobody is actually doing their jobs, expecting someone else to catch it.:mad:
 
Tragic! My prayers are with the crew and their families.

I'll admit that I know nothing about the Navy, but I thought it is SOP to station personnel on deck to stand watch 24/7?
 
We do not have a professional military, we have a CAREER military.
A professional seeks to DO.
A careerist seeks to BE.
I wonder if there isn't some career sabotage going on here. Troops find all sort of ways to get back at an overambitious self serving ticket puncher who sees command time solely for "career enhancement" and treats subordinates as so much dirt beneath their feet.
 
Hard to believe a year has passed since the McCain and Fitzgerald collisions. For those who might be interested, I found a link to the Navy's unclassified report about the two incidents and how they happened. The report has been out since late last year, but I know I never saw it or heard about it back then, and if you didn't either, here's the link:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/USS+Fitzgerald+and+USS+John+S+McCain+Collision+Reports.pdf

Human error in both, much of it by our guys on the bridges. The OOD on the Fitzgerald really screwed the pooch, but he wasn't alone. On the McCain,, a weird combination of circumstances over about five minutes, initiated by the CO, caused a turn into the path of the big commercial vessel close behind and to port of her. Never heard of a situation quite like it.
 
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