hardscrabble
Member
Kevin, that is good information. Would you share your source?
Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
Kevin, that is good information. Would you share your source?
DWalt
Member
There were definitely some commercial civilian sales of .38 Special M&P revolvers in that period. Commercial sales were curtailed in October 1940, and until March 1941, all production was against Commonwealth .38/200 orders. Some commercial .38 Special deliveries resumed at that time, intermixed with BSR production, until Pearl Harbor occurred, or shortly thereafter. I've often wondered just how many commercial civilian M&Ps were made during that period from late 1940 until 1942. It was probably a small number, and I imagine they are somewhat rare. Factory records of shipments would probably provide an answer. Some years ago, I owned a commercial .38 Special M&P, ANIB, from 1941. I bought it from a lady whose father had bought it new. I wish I still had it. Sold it for $900 in 2010 or 2011.
kwill1911
Member
HyperWar: U.S. Government Manual--1945 [Emergency War Agencies]
The link above contains the full text of the of the US Govt Handbook on Emergency War Agencies where you can read about the WPD, DSC, RFC, etc.
I have the text of the Limitation Order L-60 but a good source for information in this regard, with excellent context, is Charlie Pate's book, U.S. Handguns of World War II.
The link above contains the full text of the of the US Govt Handbook on Emergency War Agencies where you can read about the WPD, DSC, RFC, etc.
I have the text of the Limitation Order L-60 but a good source for information in this regard, with excellent context, is Charlie Pate's book, U.S. Handguns of World War II.
hardscrabble
Member
Thanks, Kevin. The Pate is out of print...I've been keeping an eye out for a copy.
LOBO
Member
At times you can find a copy or two for sale on Ebay, but they are usually asking north of $200.00 for a copy.
DWalt
Member
Might also try Abe Books. I have seen them listed there, don't know if there is one there now. But it won't be cheap.
jon p
Member
it is a 4" .38 special. NO markings on top strap, or anywhere else, except for the S&W logo, barrel patent date, caliber. no US PROPERTY, ETC.
DWalt
Member
See the recent discussions regarding the Defense Supplies Corporation. DSC guns were made for priority stateside use and had no US Property stampings. Allegedly, about 74,000 of them were made during the war.
hardscrabble
Member
I have the following Victory models:
SN 802636 is a 6" barreled 38 Special, brush blue, matching service stocks, lanyard ring, standard side plate/frame/barrel markings. Letter pending. It is probably a civilian market gun, so you may not want to catch it. If the letter produces any more information, I'll update.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, marked with ordnance bomb on butt, “U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.” on top strap, SN V337417, all matching, letter pending.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, no ordnance mark, “U.S. NAVY” on top strap, SN V203681, all matching.
S&W Victory Model, .38S&W (38-200), ordnance mark/GHD on butt, “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” on top strap, no proofs/unit markings/etc. but there is evidence something was polished off at the frame end of the barrel, SN V181992, all matching.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, unmarked top strap, ordnance bomb mark on butt, SN V169021, all matching, letter pending.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, no ordnance mark, “U.S. NAVY” on top strap, SN V113923, all matching.
SN 802636 is a 6" barreled 38 Special, brush blue, matching service stocks, lanyard ring, standard side plate/frame/barrel markings. Letter pending. It is probably a civilian market gun, so you may not want to catch it. If the letter produces any more information, I'll update.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, marked with ordnance bomb on butt, “U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.” on top strap, SN V337417, all matching, letter pending.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, no ordnance mark, “U.S. NAVY” on top strap, SN V203681, all matching.
S&W Victory Model, .38S&W (38-200), ordnance mark/GHD on butt, “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” on top strap, no proofs/unit markings/etc. but there is evidence something was polished off at the frame end of the barrel, SN V181992, all matching.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, unmarked top strap, ordnance bomb mark on butt, SN V169021, all matching, letter pending.
S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, no ordnance mark, “U.S. NAVY” on top strap, SN V113923, all matching.
DWalt
Member
1. SN 802636, shipment ca. September 1941. In .38 Special, it's probably commercial, not military.
2. SN V337417, shipment ca. June/July 1943. In .38 Special, it probably went to the U. S. Navy
3. SN V203681, shipment ca. January 1943, definite U. S. Navy.
4. SN V181992, shipment ca. December 1942. In .38 S&W, a typical Lend-Lease BSR.
5. SN V169021, shipment ca. late 1942 probable. In .38 Special and unmarked, it would likely be a DSC revolver for stateside essential civilian use.
6. SN V113923, shipment ca. September/October 1942, definite U. S. Navy.
Those two with Navy topstrap stampings are the most desirable of the lot. A nice group.
hardscrabble
Member
Got one to add to the list:
S/N V71904, Ordnance bomb over 385 on the butt (local inventory number of some sort?), no other unique markings.
Assume it was manufactured in 1942... nothing else known about it.
S/N V71904, Ordnance bomb over 385 on the butt (local inventory number of some sort?), no other unique markings.
Assume it was manufactured in 1942... nothing else known about it.
Last edited:
A little info on a Victory if you would
Hi,
I am new to this forum but I have been doing a lot of looking. I have a Victory that was given to me by my father before he passed. It has not been modified so I assume it will shoot the 38 S&W only at this time. Any information would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a bit long winded.
S/N V 359492 (stamped on the butt of the gun).
Left side. Stamped with a crown and below the crown is stamped BWP. To the right of this is stamped .38 .767" and 3 1/2 TONS.
Left side. In front of the cylinder is stamped with the same crown and BWP.
Left side. When the cylinder is swung out it is stamped C and below this is stamped 9 3719.
Left side. On the top left rail in front of the trigger is stamped U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.
Right side, just above the handle grip, is stamped FTR (I think the first one is an F anyway). Below this is stamped 52.
All locations that have a serial number match the one on the butt of the gun.
Hi,
I am new to this forum but I have been doing a lot of looking. I have a Victory that was given to me by my father before he passed. It has not been modified so I assume it will shoot the 38 S&W only at this time. Any information would be appreciated. Sorry if this is a bit long winded.
S/N V 359492 (stamped on the butt of the gun).
Left side. Stamped with a crown and below the crown is stamped BWP. To the right of this is stamped .38 .767" and 3 1/2 TONS.
Left side. In front of the cylinder is stamped with the same crown and BWP.
Left side. When the cylinder is swung out it is stamped C and below this is stamped 9 3719.
Left side. On the top left rail in front of the trigger is stamped U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.
Right side, just above the handle grip, is stamped FTR (I think the first one is an F anyway). Below this is stamped 52.
All locations that have a serial number match the one on the butt of the gun.
DWalt
Member
Pictures would help, but if it still has a 5" barrel and the chambers have not been bored to accept .38 Special ammunition, it is an unmodified S&W Victory Model .38/200 British service revolver. The serial number would date its shipment at around mid-1943. It's wonderful to find one of these in good and original condition which has not been molested and mutilated during the postwar era, as so many were.
Last edited:
Thank you for the reply. Some photos
Thank you for the reply. Here are a few photos. As you can see, it has been used but overall in very good condition. Everything is tight and the operation is very smooth. It actually has a 4" barrel but it doesn't appear to have been cut down. Smooth wooden grips.
Thank you for the reply. Here are a few photos. As you can see, it has been used but overall in very good condition. Everything is tight and the operation is very smooth. It actually has a 4" barrel but it doesn't appear to have been cut down. Smooth wooden grips.
Attachments
sgt556
Member
Victory Model info
Just picked up a Victory Model yesterday with s/n V 429122. I would like to find out about when it was made. My Smith book is vague on exact dates. I guess maybe between April and December of 1943. I took some pics but dont know how to load them. It is not marked with any military stamps other than the flaming bomb in front of the V on the butt. I think its a DSC issue. Kinda new to forum use so i move slow. Thanks for any info.
Just picked up a Victory Model yesterday with s/n V 429122. I would like to find out about when it was made. My Smith book is vague on exact dates. I guess maybe between April and December of 1943. I took some pics but dont know how to load them. It is not marked with any military stamps other than the flaming bomb in front of the V on the butt. I think its a DSC issue. Kinda new to forum use so i move slow. Thanks for any info.
DWalt
Member
Your likely shipped in late October 1943. Without property stampings and in .38 Special, it is probably a DSC revolver.
sgt556
Member
Thanks for that info. Is the Victory Model data base still up? As soon as I get time i will try to post some close up pics of this thing. It has really low miles on it.
Gent's I have a question. I have a Victory on hold with a dealer. It is a 5" lend lease in .38 S&W. (I have an Enfield No.2) with both Canadian and British proof marks and the standard U.S. markings. It's all matching.
The metal has barely and finish left, but it doesn't have any rust of pitting. Is $450.00 a decent price?
Thanks,
Matt
The metal has barely and finish left, but it doesn't have any rust of pitting. Is $450.00 a decent price?
Thanks,
Matt
[quote:/] The metal has barely and finish left, but it doesn't have any rust of pitting. Is $450.00 a decent price?
Thanks,
Matt[/quote]
From what I have seen the last few years that's a fairly steep price. The 38 S&W's, unless there is a special condition 6" barrel, pre-victory, etc, tend to run less than the 38 Specials. I would think that price would be "with a letter and in top condition". Well worn I tend to avoid, but I expect them to be a fair amount less than your quote. Your area may be different...
Thanks,
Matt[/quote]
From what I have seen the last few years that's a fairly steep price. The 38 S&W's, unless there is a special condition 6" barrel, pre-victory, etc, tend to run less than the 38 Specials. I would think that price would be "with a letter and in top condition". Well worn I tend to avoid, but I expect them to be a fair amount less than your quote. Your area may be different...
Last edited:
