Victory data base

[Absalom]

....
Correct, there are no markings on the top strap, the only extra marking is the ordnance marking on the bottom (the bomb), which from what I've gathered is on basically everyone? Otherwise they are void of any other markings. All the grips are correct as well.
......

If the guy collected the others from people in his outfit, meaning the entire unit or whatever crew this was carried unmarked DSC (or Maritime Commisssion?) revolvers, there is likely something about the guy's story that got lost in the re-telling. Victorys were not standard issue to MP's at any time. It would certainly be interesting to letter at least one of the three guns to see where it went originally.

 

[jayn.32]

pre vic shortie

894492 letters as a 5" BSR shipped 7/2/42 to Hartford. it has crown over BNP proofs, "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" top strap, scepters w/k (1959) sale date, perfect case colors , usual refinish, and silver medallion stocks numbered 702827. It has unproofed 2 1/8" bbl with ramp front sight, unusually shaped, serial is hand stamped. Butt is marked WB and ord bomb. Still has lanyard, excellent function.

 

[Targets Guy]

BSR S/N 975939 Parkerized shipped 4/42 Barrel is now 3.5".

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[Targets Guy]

Victory s/n V650093. 5" barrel, .38 S&W ctg. refinished including the swivel. Hammer and trigger chromed. "P" proofs on cylinder and frame. Interesting markings on the back strap.

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I'm guessing this one shipped in mid 1944; prob Aug/Sep.

I was right. British Service Model .38/200 V650093 shipped in August 1944.

 

[Absalom]

.... Interesting markings on the back strap.
...

HE = Hessen
M = Municipal

This stamping has appeared here before. It indicates a German police gun from the US-occupied state of Hessen (which in English for reasons unexplained is often rendered as Hesse, where the Hessians of Revolutionary War fame hailed from. In German, one Hessian is actually a Hesse ).

Most of the HE-marked Victorys I've come across so far have been US versions (4"/.38 Spl.). But interestingly, just like in the other two US-occupied states with known occupation-authority markings, Württemberg-Baden (WB plus other stuff on the backstrap) and Bayern (Bavaria Rural (or) Municipal Police on the left frame), both US Victorys and BSR's seem to have been issued in Hessen.

 

[Targets Guy]

HE = Hessen
M = Municipal

This stamping has appeared here before. It indicates a German police gun from the US-occupied state of Hessen (which in English for reasons unexplained is often rendered as Hesse, where the Hessians of Revolutionary War fame hailed from. In German, one Hessian is actually a Hesse ).

I guess that makes sense. The "P" proof is supposedly for an Army supply contract. I guess the backstrap tells where the gun was needed after the war.

And my German ancestor from the paternal side came from Hessen in the 18th century. Karma I guess.

 

[Absalom]

I guess that makes sense. The "P" proof is supposedly for an Army supply contract....

By that date, all of them got the P proofs, BSR's, DSC guns, and military-shipped ones.

 

[DWalt]

"This stamping has appeared here before. It indicates a German police gun from the US-occupied state of Hessen (which in English for reasons unexplained is often rendered as Hesse, where the Hessians of Revolutionary War fame hailed from. In German, one Hessian is actually a Hesse )."

It's a little more complicated than that. The current state of Hessen (Greater Hessen) did not come into existence until just after WWII, and was formed by a consolidation of four other old Hesse-states (Hesse-Kassel, Hesse-Darmstadt, Hesse-Rheinfels, and Hesse-Marburg). Those were created by the subdivision of an earlier Hessen state under the Holy Roman Empire in the 16th Century. Hesse-Kassel is where the well-known Hessian mercenaries of the American Revolutionary War came from. But it is correct the German state of Hessen is the one where the Victories were used by the German police.

 

[Absalom]

..

It's a little more complicated than that. The current state of Hessen (Greater Hessen) did not come into existence until just after WWII, and was formed by a consolidation of four other old Hesse-states (Hesse-Kassel, Hesse-Darmstadt, Hesse-Rheinfels, and Hesse-Marburg). Those were created by the subdivision of an earlier Hessen state under the Holy Roman Empire in the 16th Century. Hesse-Kassel is where the well-known Hessian mercenaries of the American Revolutionary War came from. But it is correct the German state of Hessen is the one where the Victories were used by the German police.

Well, it's actually even more complicated than that. By the time the occupation authorities created Gross-Hessen (Greater Hessen) in 1945, the states you listed had been subject to territorial changes and modern Hessen, as it has been simply called since 1946, was created out of the former Grand Duchy of Hessen (from 1918 to 1934 a so-called People's State minus the Duke) and two Prussian provinces, Kurhessen and Nassau.

But most important for our purposes, all those Hessens back to the original County of Hessen in the HRE had an N at the end .

I actually have a snip from a German auction site of a HE-M marked Victory, in which the description says that the right side has the Hessian coat-of-arms stamped on it. That I would have liked to see, but unfortunately the only photo shows the wrong side. The auction posting interestingly also guesses the city of Mainz for the M in the stamping, not likely since Mainz, although before the war part of the Grand Duchy, was French-occupied after WW II, became the capital of the new state of Rheinland-Palz, and was not part of US-occupied Hessen.

 

[LLOYD17]

Picked up V16109 today. No official markings though someone scratched their name on the left side and USA on the butt to the left of where the lanyard should be. All numbers match including the stocks.

Now I just need a letter and a lanyard. Then a picture next to my 228 as Past & Present Naval Aviator sidearms.

 

[Absalom]

Picked up V16109 today. No official markings though someone scratched their name on the left side and USA on the butt to the left of where the lanyard should be. All numbers match including the stocks.
.....

Some likely storage and carry dings in the stocks and what looks like very little holster rub-off on the frame corners, but otherwise everything looks in pretty good condition. I don't even see much of a turn line.

An original replacement swivel should be easy to find on ebay or Gunbroker.

 

[Targets Guy]

Some likely storage and carry dings in the stocks and what looks like very little holster rub-off on the frame corners, but otherwise everything looks in pretty good condition. I don't even see much of a turn line.

An original replacement swivel should be easy to find on ebay or Gunbroker.

I just got one from Numrich Gun Parts Corp. Very nice.

 

[DWalt]

Picked up V16109 today. No official markings though someone scratched their name on the left side and USA on the butt to the left of where the lanyard should be. All numbers match including the stocks.

Now I just need a letter and a lanyard. Then a picture next to my 228 as Past & Present Naval Aviator sidearms.

What is stamped on the topstrap? At that time, Victories which were shipped to the Navy have "U.S. NAVY" stamped there, and that was the practice until about SN V260000. IF there is no stamp, as you seem to indicate, it's very likely it did not originally go to the Navy. And it would not be a Navy aviator's sidearm.

 

[LLOYD17]

What is stamped on the topstrap? At that time, Victories which were shipped to the Navy have "U.S. NAVY" stamped there, and that was the practice until about SN V260000. IF there is no stamp, as you seem to indicate, it's very likely it did not originally go to the Navy. And it would not be a Navy aviator's sidearm.

You're correct, no stamp and I realize that most likely means it didn't ship to the Navy (though it appears not a definitive sign in a few cases). It's the correct configuration for a pilot's sidearm just as my 228 is the same configuration as the one I carried while flying over the desert but of course it wasn't shipped to the Navy either. I'm just happy to have a nice Victory even if it isn't Navy stamped.

Cheers

 

[custer1876]

victory for data bank

I have victory to submit 4inch bbl 38 special.u s property on topstrap g h d and flaming bomb also. Flaming bomb on butt with serial # v268514 , same # on bbl, cyl, and grips also. cannot find proof mark ( p ) anywhere also no s on right frame or ( p ). I believe finish is park . any information greatly appreciated came flap holster from an old Sea Bee I ll try to post pics if needed never done before .

 

[DWalt]

V268514 indicates probable shipment at around March 1943. Now a question for you. You say the topstrap stamping is "U. S. PROPERTY". But on my list I have slightly lower and higher SNs where the stamping is "UNITED STATES PROPERTY", which is the earlier form of this property stamp. Can you verify which it is? I'd say you have a .38 Special Victory which was shipped to the U. S. Navy. Prior to about V265xxx, Navy revolvers had a "U. S. NAVY" topstrap property stamping. Yours may have been made pretty much at the exact SN at which the property stamp format changed. And that is good information.

 

[Absalom]

V 268514 would have been relatively shortly before the P proof stamp began being applied to side frame, cylinder, and underbarrel, so it's not to be expected there. Usually, it was placed on the butt opposite the serial before that time, but apparently not always.

 

[custer1876]

I have victory to submit 4inch bbl 38 special.u s property on topstrap g h d and flaming bomb also. Flaming bomb on butt with serial # v268514 , same # on bbl, cyl, and grips also. cannot find proof mark ( p ) anywhere also no s on right frame or ( p ). I believe finish is park . any information greatly appreciated came flap holster from an old Sea Bee I ll try to post pics if needed never done before .

The topstrap is U S Property G H D

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, General!

 

[kwill1911]

Are there 4" Victory Models with UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the top strap? The only ones I've seen with that marking are BSRs or 2" guns that shipped to Ft. Mason.