Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
arizonafool
Member
arizonafool
Member
DWalt
Member
#V 236578 probably shipped February or March 1943. Despite its heavy finish wear, the Navy marking alone makes it of collector interest. There are Navy fakes, and getting a factory letter would be a good idea. It almost looks as though it may have been blued at one time, which is not good. The missing lanyard swivel can, and should, be replaced.
Last edited:
Appreciate info on Victory Model
I have a Victory Model with ser# V510048. 38 S&W CTG. Letter "P" inside extractor housing. US Property GHD on top strap. Any info would be great. Sorry, no pics. Does have smooth grips and lanyard swivel.
I have a Victory Model with ser# V510048. 38 S&W CTG. Letter "P" inside extractor housing. US Property GHD on top strap. Any info would be great. Sorry, no pics. Does have smooth grips and lanyard swivel.
Last edited:
That one probably shipped in late '43/early '44.
Not that numbers games mean anything, that's not far away from V510210, the cut-down Victory that Lee Harvey Oswald owned and used to shoot Dallas Officer J.D. Tippitt.
Yes, I know some of you think Oswald was a patsy and that other parties killed everybody in Dallas that day. I respectfully disagree.
Not that numbers games mean anything, that's not far away from V510210, the cut-down Victory that Lee Harvey Oswald owned and used to shoot Dallas Officer J.D. Tippitt.
Yes, I know some of you think Oswald was a patsy and that other parties killed everybody in Dallas that day. I respectfully disagree.
DWalt
Member
# V510048 probable shipping in January 1944. A picture would help to provide more information. Most of the .38/200 (.38 S&W) revolvers will have 5" barrels, measured from the front face of the cylinder. It is not unusual to find these with barrels cut shorter, refinished or nickel-plated, and/or chambers bored out to accept .38 Special cartridges, any or all of which are very undesirable characteristics. The U.S. Property marking identifies it as a Lend-Lease revolver, made in the US for Allied forces use, predominantly the British Commonwealth. GHD is Guy H Drewry, commander of the Springfield Army Ordnance District.
By the way, Oswald's revolver had the barrel cut back and the chambers bored out. It was never conclusively connected to the shooting of Officer J. D. Tippitt. But it is highly probable that it was the murder weapon.
By the way, Oswald's revolver had the barrel cut back and the chambers bored out. It was never conclusively connected to the shooting of Officer J. D. Tippitt. But it is highly probable that it was the murder weapon.
Last edited:
DWalt
Member
Many of the .38/200s will have British proof marks, but not all. Assuming it's otherwise tight and sound, it's original and therefore worthwhile owning. You might check to see if the grips are numbered to the gun - if so, all the better. In that condition of finish, I might be tempted to re-Parkerize it.
You may or may not be aware that factory .38 S&W ammunition is still available, but is difficult to find, as few retail outlets stock it, and will be somewhat expensive. At the present time, so is about every other handgun caliber. If you are a reloader, the .38 S&W can be safely handloaded for the M&P to nearly equal the .38 Special's performance, as modern factory .38 S&W ammunition is very lightly loaded in deference to the millions of old breaktop revolvers from the black powder era in that caliber still floating around.
You may or may not be aware that factory .38 S&W ammunition is still available, but is difficult to find, as few retail outlets stock it, and will be somewhat expensive. At the present time, so is about every other handgun caliber. If you are a reloader, the .38 S&W can be safely handloaded for the M&P to nearly equal the .38 Special's performance, as modern factory .38 S&W ammunition is very lightly loaded in deference to the millions of old breaktop revolvers from the black powder era in that caliber still floating around.
Last edited:
DWalt
Member
If the finish is as bad as you say, re-Parkerizing (assuming it is a good job) won't hurt its value. And it was the correct original finish. It can be done at home if you want to try it, but I don't think it would be that expensive to have a pro do it. It should not be too expensive, as metal polishing is not required - usually just bead blasting. But don't do the hammer and trigger. If you want to go all the way, use one of the spray and bake Teflon coatings over the Parkerized finish. That makes a very tough and corrosion-proof finish and it also looks pretty good. You can do that at home too.
DWalt
Member
Likely shipped February or March 1943. Looks very nice. There are fakes, so getting a factory letter to be sure is a good idea. Looks like something is stamped on the left grip panel. Are they numbered to the gun?
DWalt,
Thanks for your reply. The right grip (pretty sure it is right grip) has the same serial number as the pistol. I have sent in the payment to request a letter from Smith & Wesson.
Also, have the holster marked Boyt 43 USN with the cartridge loops and 38 tracer ammo.
I wish there was some way to find out who carved their intial into the left grip.....J. W. D.
Thanks for your reply. The right grip (pretty sure it is right grip) has the same serial number as the pistol. I have sent in the payment to request a letter from Smith & Wesson.
Also, have the holster marked Boyt 43 USN with the cartridge loops and 38 tracer ammo.
I wish there was some way to find out who carved their intial into the left grip.....J. W. D.
Last edited:
Springfan
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
DWalt
Member
Robert Fisher - Probable shipping of V183950 in December 1942.
Navy-stamped V-models in good original condition are of great interest to collectors, as relatively few were made. The addition of holsters is a plus. Any V-model with Navy markings should be lettered.
They will typically have no other inspection or proof stampings, but some may also have another Navy property stamping on the frame.
I have understood that the Navy considered these revolvers more as emergency signaling devices (using tracer ammunition) than personal defensive weapons. There would be little need for a defensive handgun at sea, but for aviators forced down on land, one could also be useful as a survival tool as well as a signalling device. Some also found their way into Shore Patrol holsters.
Navy-stamped V-models in good original condition are of great interest to collectors, as relatively few were made. The addition of holsters is a plus. Any V-model with Navy markings should be lettered.
They will typically have no other inspection or proof stampings, but some may also have another Navy property stamping on the frame.
I have understood that the Navy considered these revolvers more as emergency signaling devices (using tracer ammunition) than personal defensive weapons. There would be little need for a defensive handgun at sea, but for aviators forced down on land, one could also be useful as a survival tool as well as a signalling device. Some also found their way into Shore Patrol holsters.
Last edited:
kwill1911
Member
DWalt,
Can you quote a source for this statement? If not, I'd like to hear from the guys that actually maintain the Victory database as to the accuracy of this statement. You may be right--I'm not a Victory Model collector, per se--but my understanding is that almost ALL Victory Models shipped to the Navy and the majority of them are so marked.
Regards,
Kevin Williams
DWalt
Member
There were two Navy contracts for M&Ps during WWII (shipped in 1942 and 1943), and those were the only ones stamped U. S. Navy. Allegedly the total was about 65,000 units. Later on, the Navy just got theirs through the Army, and those had no special Navy markings. You might also be aware that there are some Navy revolvers with Navy property markings on the left side of the frame.
You may want to look here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...08-serial-number-blocks-us-navy-victorys.html
kwill1911
Member
I should have checked Charlie Pate's book first. I happen to know that ordnanceguy is on vacation with no internet access to help me out but here are the numbers from Pate's book: total US purchases = 352,315 of which 22,500 went to the DSC. These had no top strap markings. The Navy took 65,000 directly which would be marked US Navy on the top strap. The Army took delivery of 264,815 even though most of these were for the Navy. One of these Army contracts (for 20,000 guns) also had the US Navy roll mark. So, of the 329,815 revolvers delivered to military purchasers, 85,000 had the US Navy roll mark, or about 26%.
DWalt
Member
" One of these Army contracts (for 20,000 guns) also had the US Navy roll mark."
I don't know about that one. But the scarcity factor of Navy V-Models should properly use the total number of wartime M&Ps (over 1 million) as the denominator. And of course the number of DSC revolvers is even less than Navies. However, the Navy-marked ones seem to bring substantially better prices. That's possibly because many do not recognize the greater scarcity of the non-military revolvers, or maybe it's because they do not have the Military cachet.
I don't know about that one. But the scarcity factor of Navy V-Models should properly use the total number of wartime M&Ps (over 1 million) as the denominator. And of course the number of DSC revolvers is even less than Navies. However, the Navy-marked ones seem to bring substantially better prices. That's possibly because many do not recognize the greater scarcity of the non-military revolvers, or maybe it's because they do not have the Military cachet.
