Victory data base

[hcso617]

Thanks for the info Brigham.

 

[DWalt]

You are looking at perhaps a $300 gun.

 

[brdman2]

US Navy model info

Hello from newbie,
I recently received a Victory that was in my late father's collection, but don't know any history of his ownership or use.
Serial #V234655 on butt with lanyard ring, underside of barrel and cylinder. Stamping on inside of right walnut stock is indistinct and the numbers are not lined up, but I can't be sure they match other serial numbers. 4" barrel, 38 S & W SPECIAL CTG on barrel right side, US NAVY on top left strap. 76903 S on cylinder swing-out arm (proper term?), X 76903 on fixed mating surface. Worn & nicked grips and some scrapes on metal, but decent shape. Cylinder locks up fairly tight but has very slight play.
Does Feb. 1943 sound like a likely mfg./ship date? I received a baggie of .38 Spl + P and a box of Winchester WinClean .38 Special 125 Gr. JSP ammo. I've already read enough in this forum & elsewhere to steer clear of the +P, but is the Winchester ammo safe to fire in this? Bullet fits fine in the cylinder and very tight test fit in the barrel muzzle. The more I read about 38 S&W, 38 S&W Spl and 38 Spl the more confused I get. Is there 38 S&W Spl ammo or is it just 38 Spl ammo? I'd like to fire this, as I have read that these guns stand the test of time and are fun to fire. I've cleaned it, but would it be advisable to have a gunsmith check it out first? The range we've shot at wouldn't give me any opinion about its serviceability - probably due to liability concerns. I'll try to post pictures if I can shrink the ones I have.
Thank you for any information!

 

[DWalt]

Yes, Feb 1943 should be very close. Don't worry about shooting the +P. The Victory will handle them with ease. However, I am not much of a fan of +P loads for general purpose use in shooting paper targets or tin cans. It provides no advantage for that purpose. You might shoot a few rounds and hold the rest back as "just in case" loads. .38 S&W Special and .38 Special are synonymous terms. The best ammo to use for casual shooting is the cheapest .38 Special 158 grain lead bullet loads you can find. Navy-marked Victories have a little extra value attached to them vs. those with "United States Property" or "U. S. Property" stampings, although they are by no means rare. The Navy property stampings stopped at about SN V267000.

 

[brdman2]

Thanks for clearing up my confusion about the ammo and the gun's ability to handle it.

 

[flatbeder69]

help with history of my victory.

V63170 Bnp below a crown in front of trigger guard, under barrel crossed swords with l 5 b , v next to crown over bnp, parker hale England on front sight bored to shoot 38 spl, maby an f on butt on other side of d ring hole witch has been plugged, D over 11981 on frame underneath the cylinder hinge. Right side of barrel 38 s&w ctg left right side smith &wesson. Tried to post pic doesn't seem to want to work. Grips are old and dingy cream color. Looks like maby faux ivory any help will be greatly appreciated!

 

[DWalt]

I show several nearby SNs which were shipped in August 1942. What you have is a highly modified .38/200 British service revolver. The modifications involved refinishing, shortening the barrel from the original 5" length (and replacing the front sight), boring the chambers deeper to accept .38 Special rounds, and replacing the grips. This made them more attractive to US buyers. Immense numbers of these revolvers were imported into the US as surplus in the 1950s and 1960s, where they were sold at prices in the $25-$35 range, many by direct mail order (gun laws in the US were much more lax then). Some of the markings you mentioned are British proof markings. Before they were sold off by the British, they had to be proofed and stamped. BNP means Birmingham Nitro Proof, i.e., proof tested at the Birmingham proof house. Other marking simply concern assembly and inspection markings, and are typical.

The bad news is that such revolvers have no collector value and little monetary value. They are OK as utility shooters for someone who needs a cheap gun, but that's about all.

 

[sky.hawk]

Should I buy it?

Hello I'd like to thank everyone here for the wonderful information and history lesson concerning these revolvers. I have been reading up for a couple of weeks and trying to decide if I should buy one that has been calling my name. Please excuse me if this is not an appropriate thread for this question.

I have my eyes on a model with serial number V120XXX chambered in .38 Special. It has a very shiny blue finish that looks brand new. I don't have pics (stupid me) but I recall it has checkered grips and no lanyard loop. I think the bbl is 4".

I was told it came from an enthusiastic collector who traveled the world collecting fine old pistols, and that the finish is original. The pistol is in amazing, practically immaculate condition. I am wondering if it is possible this finish is original, considering most I have seen have been parkerized or some other flat military appearing finish.

Sorry I don't have much info, I wasn't looking for this pistol but I have seen it twice while doing other business and each time I am smitten over it, even before I knew anything at all about these models. Now that I have learned more about them I am even more tempted.

The price on the pistol is $450 and is a consignment sale. Any input would be very much appreciated. If pics are required I will try and get some, but the pistol is located an hour away. I may be able to have the FFL send me some pics. It is a FFL I trust but perhaps the story is too good to be true. Thanks in advance,

 

[DWalt]

If it's blued and shiny, the finish is not original.

"I recall it has checkered grips and no lanyard loop."
At that time, grips would have been smooth wood and all Victories had lanyard swivels.

I'd suggest you exercise caution in making that purchase. Buying it because you are smitten is no substitute for making an objective analysis of what it is.

 

[finloq]

Plus, many 4" Victory's were chambered in 38/200 and sent/sold to the Commonwealth. Later they were reimported into the States and their chambers were bored out to accept 38spl. The barrel is still in the larger .361 instead of the 38spl's .357, though. Cheap shooters, many were refinished.



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

 

[DWalt]

Plus, many 4" Victory's were chambered in 38/200 and sent/sold to the Commonwealth. Later they were reimported into the States and their chambers were bored out to accept 38spl. The barrel is still in the larger .361 instead of the 38spl's .357, though. Cheap shooters, many were refinished.

I believe that only a relative few of the .38/200s produced originally tor South Africa early in the war left the factory with 4" barrels. 5" was the standard barrel length for the .38/200. Any other length would be very unusual, but perhaps not unknown.

 

[sky.hawk]

If it's blued and shiny, the finish is not original.

"I recall it has checkered grips and no lanyard loop."
At that time, grips would have been smooth wood and all Victories had lanyard swivels.

I'd suggest you exercise caution in making that purchase. Buying it because you are smitten is no substitute for making an objective analysis of what it is.

Thanks very much! Objective analysis is why I am here asking questions instead of at the bank asking for cash, now 3 weeks after having seen it for the first time Lord knows I don't need another revolver, and I would only be interested if it was original or at least close to it. The new finish wouldn't throw me off considering the price, but if many other details have changed like a chopped barrel and/or re-chamber then I'm likely not as interested.

If the revolver is stamped/rolled with 38 Special, does that make it less likely to have been rechambered, or is it common to also remark the gun for the rechambered cartridge?

If I can get any more details or photos I will share them, if for no other reason than to add to this wealth of knowledge and the virtual collection you have accumulated here.

Thanks again,

 

[DWalt]

If it's stamped .38 S&W Special CTG on the barrel and the serial number on the barrel bottom matches the serial number on the butt, then the barrel will be original. Most of the chopped Victories will be the British .38/200s. That's something wlse to look for. There should be five matching serial numbers - butt, barrel, rear face of cylinder, yoke (you have to look through a chamber to see it),and inside the extractor star. Plus of course the grip SN inside the right grip panel. I'd have to be very smitten to pay that kind of money for a re-blued Victory, no matter how nice it looks.

 

[finloq]

I believe that only a relative few of the .38/200s produced originally tor South Africa early in the war left the factory with 4" barrels. 5" was the standard barrel length for the .38/200. Any other length would be very unusual, but perhaps not unknown.

You're right, I got it reversed. The Brits liked 5" and the Yanks liked 4".



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I have another Victory model. It is a 4" in .38 Special, sn V12797, all numbers match including the stocks. It appears unfired. There are no military or inspector stamps anywhere.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Thanks, Don. I will get your's added to the Victory Model Database. Is there an ordnance bomb marking on the butt?

 

[DWalt]

I have another Victory model. It is a 4" in .38 Special, sn V12797, all numbers match including the stocks. It appears unfired. There are no military or inspector stamps anywhere.

The SN would indicate shipment in around September 1942. Without a "United States Property" stamping on the topstrap, it would most likely have been made for stateside essential service - defense plant guards, police, etc. Ordinary citizens couldn't buy new guns back then, because there weren't any. All gun production was channeled into essential uses and the military, not unlike new cars.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Charlie
No,
It is completely devoid of any military marks.

 

[JSR III]

I know nothing about the Victory models except what I read here but wouldn't a 5 digit serial number make this a very early gun as far as the Victories are concerned ??

 

[DWalt]

I know nothing about the Victory models except what I read here but wouldn't a 5 digit serial number make this a very early gun as far as the Victories are concerned ??

The highest 5-digit V-model would have been shipped around September 1942. There is a large cluster of 5-digit V-series SNs over a wide range which shipped in the mid-1942 (June-September) period, and there is no good way to correlate SN vs. shipment date, as I show even some 4 digit SNs being shipped as late as August. Production was being cranked up very quickly during this time, so probably no one was too concerned about what SNs went out the door first. However, on my list I don't show any having 5 digits as shipping after September.