Victory data base

[pdunwell4]

Why would mine have the "flaming bomb" ordnance stamp on the butt and no top strap mark?

 

[DWalt]

Why would mine have the "flaming bomb" ordnance stamp on the butt and no top strap mark?

I will offer a theory, but I cannot say it is true. As you probably know, most Victories having no topstrap stamping were made for stateside civilian use, the so-called DSC revolvers. However, as the Army pretty well ran the show at S&W during WWII, I assume that the flaming bomb ordnance acceptance stamp was applied by some inspector on all completed frames before they were assembled into finished revolvers and given (or not given) property stamps on the topstrap and shipped to wherever they were going.

 

[hcso617]

I finally found a Victory that was in my price range and in pretty good shape and matching numbers. I'm stoked.

Serial No. V425080
4" U.S. Property GHD
Chambered in .38 spl

I'll send off for a letter and update you when I get it. It has a very nice trigger, wish I had a better camera and camera skills.

 

[DWalt]

V425080 indicates shipment in about October 1943. Be aware that a factory letter may well not provide information much beyond that, other than shipment to some military depot.

 

[hcso617]

Thanks DWALT

 

[LOBO]

I thought this factory letter may be of some interest to those subscribed to this thread.

Factory Letter for Union of South Africa Pre-Victory model

 

[z10]

My Victory
Serial # V48419
4" barrel
No mark butt
No United States Property on the top
Marked 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG on the right side of the barrel
Cylinder marked with 48419
Black parkerized
Smooth walnut grips

This revolver belonged to my grandfather who worked for Phillips Chemical during WWII and I believe it was issued to him as a guard weapon.

The gun is tight and in nice shape. What can you tell me about it.
Thanks,

 

[DWalt]

You pretty well have the story. Your SN would date shipment to about July 1942. Those with no topstrap stamping will typically have been used in essential stateside service by law enforcement and defense plant guards. Allegedly there were about 74,000 procured through the Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) during the war. They are not really rare, but they are not that common either. Sometimes they are found with various property markings and inventory numbers etched or stamped somewhere on them, such as the name of some defense contractor, e.g., Boeing, duPont, etc. They were not actually government issue, as the users paid for them.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Good letter there, Lobo, on your South African. Thanks for posting it.

 

[z10]

You pretty well have the story. Your SN would date shipment to about July 1942. Those with no topstrap stamping will typically have been used in essential stateside service by law enforcement and defense plant guards. Allegedly there were about 74,000 procured through the Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) during the war. They are not really rare, but they are not that common either. Sometimes they are found with various property markings and inventory numbers etched or stamped somewhere on them, such as the name of some defense contractor, e.g., Boeing, duPont, etc. They were not actually government issue, as the users paid for them.

Thanks DWalt. I just received this gun last week and have found memories on the few occasions I would see it. Most of the time it was when my grandfather put it in the glove box when we went on vacation.

 

[hardscrabble]

I have the following Victory models:

SN 802636 is a 6" barreled 38 Special, brush blue, matching service stocks, lanyard ring, standard side plate/frame/barrel markings. Letter pending. It is probably a civilian market gun, so you may not want to catch it. If the letter produces any more information, I'll update.

S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, marked with ordnance bomb on butt, “U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.” on top strap, SN V337417, all matching, letter pending.

S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, no ordnance mark, “U.S. NAVY” on top strap, SN V203681, all matching.

S&W Victory Model, .38S&W (38-200), ordnance mark/GHD on butt, “UNITED STATES PROPERTY” on top strap, no proofs/unit markings/etc. but there is evidence something was polished off at the frame end of the barrel, SN V181992, all matching.

S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, unmarked top strap, ordnance bomb mark on butt, SN V169021, all matching, letter pending.

S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, no ordnance mark, “U.S. NAVY” on top strap, SN V113923, all matching.

I received letters on 3 of these:

S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, unmarked top strap, ordnance bomb mark on butt, SN V169021, all matching, shipped to Bermite Powder Co., Saugus, CA, May 4, 1943.

S&W Victory Model, .38 Special, marked with ordnance bomb on butt, “U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.” on top strap, SN V337417, all matching, shipped to US Navy, Oakland, CA, July 9, 1943.

S&W M&P, SN 802636 is a 6" barreled 38 Special, brush blue, matching checked service stocks, lanyard ring, standard side plate/frame/barrel markings. "This revolver is one of the last of the commercial sales before the government stopped all commercial sales except those controlled by the Defense Supply corporation." Shipped to George Worthington Co., Cleveland, OH, July 25, 1941.

 

[DWalt]

Regarding V169021, I have listed several SNs in that neighborhood which shipped in various dates in mid-1943, while others shipped in late 1942. On the other hand, I show several Victories which shipped in mid-1943 which have SNs in the (rough) V300000 to V370000 range, such as your V337417. It just shows that you cannot determine shipping dates very well from a SN alone.

 

[1st Piece]

Obviously new to the forum, have read this entire thread and have a victory to add. Thought maybe I could find a serial number much closer to this one and venture a guess from there. Looking for any info on serial #V134493. No one is quite sure where my grandfather got this from and I had a sneaking suspicion it may have belonged (possibly even issued) to his father. It has all matching numbers (barrel, cylinder, butt, grip) is marked as 38 s&w (have not tried to chamber 38 special). It has "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" stamped on the left strap, has the unmolested 5" barrel and would appear to have a grey finish. The top of the straps are the only places showing any finish wear other than the ejector rod (of course). I will try and get some pics up later, but for now I'm just looking for some info to maybe share a little history with my grandfather. From what I have read I would assume a ship date around oct - nov 1942 but beyond that I'm not sure if this is a BSR or otherwise. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[DWalt]

#V134493 would likely have shipped in the October-November 1942 timeframe. So you are correct in your dating assumption. It is indeed a .38/200 BSR, and fortunately it appears to have not been messed with, as so many were, or British-proofed. It would be a Lend-Lease weapon. You might look here for more information about Lend-Lease: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...e-act-1941-38-200-revolver.html#post137799153 The only problem is from a shooting standpoint, as .38 S&W ammunition is not easily come by, and is somewhat expensive. A .38/200 in good condition is something nice to have.

 

[max]

The LGS called me to look at V85597. It is a 4 inch 38 special. It has been refinished and any and all govt markings are gone.

 

[1st Piece]

A .38/200 in good condition is something nice to have.

Would getting a letter likely shine more light on a "grey" piece or should I Just leave well enough alone? As well, I have a few boxes of reloaded .380 from respectable reloader known well locally. I don't want to assume it is proper ammunition but it did shoot and function quite well. Is this safe to use or should I put it by the wayside?

 

[DWalt]

Would getting a letter likely shine more light on a "grey" piece or should I Just leave well enough alone? As well, I have a few boxes of reloaded .380 from respectable reloader known well locally. I don't want to assume it is proper ammunition but it did shoot and function quite well. Is this safe to use or should I put it by the wayside?

You could certainly order a factory letter ($50), but if you do, be aware that it is not likely to provide much, if any, additional information beyond that which you already know. If the ammo fits, shoot it. But do not throw away the empties. Those who shoot the obsolescent and obsolete calibers to any extent will load their own due to the logistics and economic problems associated with the ammunition.

 

[Mike in Wis.]

I'm a newbie to this forum so be kind. I purchased my first Victory Model today. I plan on sending for a letter. Serial number is V495759, it has no US Property markings on the top strap or GHD. It is marked .38 Special and has a 4" barrel. It does display several ordnance bomb stamps and a couple P proofs on the cylinder and frame. All numbers match where and what they should and it still has about 90% original finish. The rear of the grip frame is hand engraved USMC #55. I assume this is likely the US Maritime Commission. Any idea of approximate date of manufacture ?

Regards all,

Mike

 

[ordnanceguy]

I assume this is likely the US Maritime Commission. Any idea of approximate date of manufacture ? Mike

Hi Mike:

I think your guess that this revolver was shipped to the US Maritime Commission is a pretty good guess. It likely shipped from the factory in the December 1943-February 1944 time frame. (I had the wrong serial number in my search earlier.)

 

[DWalt]

I list V4983xx as shipping in early February 1944, and is also a USMC. Another USMC Victory on my list is V4912xx which shipped in mid-January 1944. Pretty safe to say the shipping date of yours is between them.