Victory data base

[Ron M.]

I got this message when I tried to access S&W data request...

Ron M., you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
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[ordnanceguy]

RonM:

Send me a PM with your email address (or just post it here) and I will email the factory letter request form to you.

 

[DWalt]

Appears there is a hold on letters at present.

 

[mcpilot]

My Victory

I posted the pics previously..

Here is the Jinks letter that I just received on Friday...

 

[craigcole]

Something is very strange about this one. With the V SN prefix (on butt) it would have to be a Victory from around mid-1944, but the 4-line address on the frame would put it from sometime in the postwar era (after mid-1948). That could have been done at S&W during a later visit for repairs. Grips are from no earlier than the early 1950s. Barrel SN differs from that of the gun, so it is not original. What, if anything, is stamped on the grip frame, under the grips? Regardless, it is a refinished parts gun and would be valued as such.

Under the grip are the letters VF2 each on a different part of the frame under the grip.

 

[Jackcpat]

Pre Victory?

I have what I thought was a Victory 5 inch, but the serial #807545 does not contain a V. It's a 5 screw, matt finish, smooth walnut stocks. Barrel is stamped 38 S&w ctg on the right side. Frame is stamped MADE IN USA, just above that stamp is an A ^F. Below the stamp is the frame is marked AFRMA/51 then just below that is ^M
6
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Left side of the frame is stamped CAL .38 SPECIAL.
Frame, cylinder, and barrel #s match
So I really have no idea what I have, if this is not the right forum, maybe some one could redirect me. Thanks

 

[Absalom]

I have what I thought was a Victory 5 inch, but the serial #807545 does not contain a V. It's a 5 screw, matt finish, smooth walnut stocks. Barrel is stamped 38 S&w ctg on the right side. Frame is stamped MADE IN USA, just above that stamp is an A ^F. Below the stamp is the frame is marked AFRMA/51 then just below that is ^M
6
L
Left side of the frame is stamped CAL .38 SPECIAL.
Frame, cylinder, and barrel #s match
So I really have no idea what I have, if this is not the right forum, maybe some one could redirect me. Thanks

Yes, you did correctly identify your gun as a pre-Victory, or if one wants to be picky, a pre-V British Service Revolver or BSR, made in late 1941 and chambered for .38 S&W. I'm not sure that the smooth walnut stocks are original to that gun, though. Pre-Victories generally came with checkered pre-war stocks, although I'm not certain at the moment when smooth stocks started.
At some point after the war, your gun's chambers were changed to handle .38 Special, and the gun was so marked on the side plate. I can't interpret the other markings, but the caliber side plate marking tends to appear on former New Zealand guns, but that's just an informal observation.

 

[Jackcpat]

Thank you so Much for your reply, I rally appreciate your help.

 

[Absalom]

I've posted a separate thread about this gun, but to keep the info in this database together, here are the basics:

Victory # V 626 880, .38 Special, all-matching except for stocks (likely due to the extended tenure of magnas on this gun post-war before being re-equipped with original style)
DSC contract sale to the Louisville, KY, police, no topstrap marking, backstrap marked as pictured.

I have confirmed six other Victorys with the same stamping:
V 612 582, V 622 487, V 624 00X (fake US NAVY topstrap stamp), V 627 277, V 627 3XX, V 630 980.

 

[walkcubs]

Got Another Victory

Just picked up another victory model .38 Special.
Serial number is V586XX.
Bright blue finish, no sign of refinishing.
All serial numbers match including the grips.
NO US Property marking. Ammo marking on butt.
Evidence of grinding off of initials next to ammo marking.
Great action. Obviously taken care of.
Can I get the date of manufacture or shipping from S&W?
Pics attached.

 

[DWalt]

"Can I get the date of manufacture or shipping from S&W?"
You could, but not now. There is presently a moratorium on factory letters. V586XX is a fairly early Victory, likely shipping about August 1942. Without a topstrap property stamping, the most likely possibility is that it is one made for stateside civilian use by police, defense plant security guards, etc., which were allowed to buy them for essential civilian uses. These were obtained by purchase through the Government's Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC), and are referred to as DSC Victories. But there are other more remote possibilities for not having the property stamping which would require a factory letter to divulge. I'd bet yours has been refinished - they would not have been blued at that time, as yours appears to be. That pretty well kills any collector value it would otherwise have. It's now just a shooter-grade revolver.

 

[Absalom]

......... Ammo marking on butt.
Evidence of grinding off of initials next to ammo marking.
......

From your pictures, obviously reblued as DWalt said. At least they apparently did not refinish trigger and hammer.

Your quote above is a bit puzzling. Any chance you could post a picture of what you are talking about? There should be no caliber markings on the butt of any kind, refinished or not.

PS: It just occurs to me that "ammo marking" might be your way of describing the flaming bomb mark. In that case I do know what you mean.

 

[walkcubs]

I appreciate the quick response. From reading Roy Jinks' book, I knew they finished some early victories with a bright blue finish, I just didn't know when they stopped. If this gun was refinished, it was a quality job. I don't think it was factory done because I don't see any markings under the grips. All of the factory engravings, S&W seal, barrel markings are very clear.
As for the mark on the butt, I attached a picture. You can see what is left of the flaming bomb stamp. There is evidence that the W.B. initials were removed.

 

[Absalom]

.....
As for the mark on the butt, I attached a picture. You can see what is left of the flaming bomb stamp. There is evidence that the W.B. initials were removed.

I see what you mean. That does look indeed like someone ground something off. HOWEVER, as a gun with no topstrap marking, meaning a likely DSC gun, it would not have had the W.B. initials in the first place. So that remains a puzzle, unless someone professionally removed the US PROPERTY stamp from the top; although on the couple I 've seen where that was done, it was obvious.

 

[walkcubs]

Just picked up a postwar victory model .38 Special.
Serial number is SV8099XX.
Worn blue finish, obviously a shooter. Bobbed hammer.
All serial numbers match including the magna grips.
NO US Property marking. "S" stamp just under right magna grip.
Patents still on barrel.
Great action.
Don't know if this qualifies on the victory database but I figure this one was manufactured late 1945 early 1946.

 

[walkcubs]

Just to follow up. I noticed on the first page of this thread, Arkievol posted a model that he got a s&w letter for. His post war model is only 36 guns after mine. I don't suppose it was part of the same NYCPD shipment in Mar 1946.

 

[Absalom]

Just to follow up. I noticed on the first page of this thread, Arkievol posted a model that he got a s&w letter for. His post war model is only 36 guns after mine. I don't suppose it was part of the same NYCPD shipment in Mar 1946.

You'll notice that Arkievol's gun has the shield number stamping, which was, at that time and up into the 60s, pretty much a requirement for NYPD service guns. If yours does not have such a number (either on the backstrap or on the butt next to the serial number), it is unlikely, although not totally impossible.

 

[DWalt]

Just picked up a postwar victory model .38 Special.
Serial number is SV8099XX.
Worn blue finish, obviously a shooter. Bobbed hammer.
All serial numbers match including the magna grips.
NO US Property marking. "S" stamp just under right magna grip.
Patents still on barrel.
Great action.
Don't know if this qualifies on the victory database but I figure this one was manufactured late 1945 early 1946.

After the end of WWII in August 1945, leftover components in factory inventory were assembled and finished for sale on the domestic civilian market. Technically, they are civilian Victories, the SV prefix indicating that it is a Victory model having the improved hammer block safety first incorporated into production during early 1945. Virtually all of the blued SV-prefix civilian revolvers were shipped in the early few months of 1946. Most, if not all, will have a plugged lanyard swivel hole in the butt.

 

[walkcubs]

Thanx for the response. The lanyard hole is plugged and there is no NYCPD stamp.
The only blemish on this gun is someone did a bad job bobbing the hammer. A friend of mine took a dermal toll and cut grooves into it to at least make it double action. Any advice where I can get a replacement hammer?

 

[DWalt]

Thanx for the response. The lanyard hole is plugged and there is no NYCPD stamp.
The only blemish on this gun is someone did a bad job bobbing the hammer. A friend of mine took a dermal toll and cut grooves into it to at least make it double action. Any advice where I can get a replacement hammer?

The early-style hammers used prior to 1948 should be available. Look on eBay or Sarco, or do a general internet search. Maybe someone reading this has one for sale. There was a different hammer design used starting in 1948.