Victory data base

[s3dcor]

So I purchased this Victory today for $250. I did a complete disassembly and cleaning. It is tight and shows no wear. The finish has faded, I understand that is quite common. It has not been modified in any way, still a .38 S&W. I show below the NP, BV and SP flaming bomb marks. It also has a mark, crossed scepters with an E left and S right and a 1 below. I have no idea what SP or the crossed scepters mean. All numbers match except the grips which have an earlier 5 digit serial. I can tell that it had a large set of grips on it at one time as the finish is darker in that area. SN: V755218 Still a nice gun even with the poor finish. If you have any more info I will appreciate your response.

I just figured out that the sideplate has the hammer block on it and I did not know what it was. There is no "S" on the butt. Does that add up to the sn's for the hammer block change?

 

[Absalom]

Your gun was surplused out relatively early for a British Service model.

The markings on the gun's barrel you describe and that are visible in the picture are the old style of Birmingham commercial proofs under the Rule of 1925, which was replaced by the Rule of 1955 in that year.

Most ex-BSR's were not proofed in Birmingham until the later 1950's and have the post-1955 style of markings.

The crossed sceptres are a so-called viewmark. E is 1954. I think you must be misreading the B for Birmingham as an S, since an S is not a thing in that position. The 1 is the inspector's rank.

On the barrel proofs, those are not "flaming bombs", but crowns over letters in a circle
They should be BV (Viewmark), BP (Definite proof), NP (Nitro proof).

 

[Absalom]

....
I just figured out that the sideplate has the hammer block on it and I did not know what it was. There is no "S" on the butt. Does that add up to the sn's for the hammer block change?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this addendum. Does the sideplate have the S? That would be highly unusual. The serial is too low for the gun to have been produced with the new hammerblock (start around V769-), and to our knowledge no British Service models were produced with or later converted to the upgrade.

 

[s3dcor]

My BSR has a sideplate with the hammer block safety on it. The assembly numbers are the same ones as on the crane and frame. The Sn is V755218. If the sideplate was replaced it would not likely have the assembly numbers in it or they would not match. That leads me to believe that it came from the factory that way. There is no "S" anywhere.

Thanks for your input. I like to learn all I can about these. Here is a pic of my other one an early one marked RCAF and in excellent condition.

 

[Vbk76]

Picked up today and adding to the database
Came with no side plate no grips
Spare fitted and grips put on

All other parts match
Says U S Property GHD on top strap
Assorted British proofs
Cylinder NOT reamed for special, it's still only .38 S&W
Serial V 569032

 

[codenamedave]

My BSR has a sideplate with the hammer block safety on it. The assembly numbers are the same ones as on the crane and frame. The Sn is V755218. If the sideplate was replaced it would not likely have the assembly numbers in it or they would not match. That leads me to believe that it came from the factory that way. There is no "S" anywhere.

Sounds like there's still an implied question in your comments. Posts by you and Absalom seem to asking & answering without a direct train.

Yes.

Yes the sideplate mounted hammer block is correct, for the serial number and for being a BSR. Yes, not having an "S" is correct since it hasn't been converted to the newer style block, which as far as we know has never been done to a BSR. And so yes, it would've come from the factory as it sits.

 

[Mk VII]

Recently bought this BSR, no. 963611, which has had very little if any use at all.

[newer pictures], the WB and flaming bomb are present. Serial no. is stamped inside one grip.

 

[Absalom]

Recently bought this BSR, no. 963611, which has had very little if any use at all
....the WB and flaming bomb are present. Serial no is stamped inside one grip.

Very nice find. It's highly unusual to see an early one like this (spring 1942) in such a pristine condition and with no British post-war proofs either. You don't mention the UNITED STATES PROPERTY topstrap stamp, which should be there at that serial.

 

[Mk VII]

Yes, the property stamp is there. I think it must have surfaced only recently, the proof mark (bbl. 6 o'clock) is recent.

 

[Absalom]

Yes, the property stamp is there. I think it must have surfaced only recently, the proof mark (bbl. 6 o'clock) is recent.

I didn't actually notice your location until now.

So do I understand correctly that it does have a post-service proof under the barrel? Could you show a picture?

 

[Mk VII]

I won't be able to take more pictures until next month but I'll put on my list (better camera next time).

 

[dsk]

I'm hoping you guys can help me a little with a Victory Model I saw today. 4" barrel, .38 S&W Special marking, the serial # is V24xxxx with the V directly in line with the serial number instead of on the other side of the lanyard loop. Unfortunately I can't recall the rest of the serial number (should have written it down, I know). There is an ordnance mark on the bottom in front of the lanyard loop, but there are no markings at all on the top strap. I looked hard to make sure it wasn't simply faint, but there's nothing there. There is a hand-stamped rack number on the RH side of the frame and it wears "trench art" grips. There is also another set of stamped letters on the back of the strap but they are impossible to make out. The finish is worn and looks just like all the others posted here. Does it sound legit enough to go back for a second look?

 

[chiefdave]

I'm hoping you guys can help me a little with a Victory Model I saw today. 4" barrel, .38 S&W Special marking, the serial # is V24xxxx with the V directly in line with the serial number instead of on the other side of the lanyard loop. Unfortunately I can't recall the rest of the serial number (should have written it down, I know). There is an ordnance mark on the bottom in front of the lanyard loop, but there are no markings at all on the top strap. I looked hard to make sure it wasn't simply faint, but there's nothing there. There is a hand-stamped rack number on the RH side of the frame and it wears "trench art" grips. There is also another set of stamped letters on the back of the strap but they are impossible to make out. The finish is worn and looks just like all the others posted here. Does it sound legit enough to go back for a second look?

I have V241925 and the V is left of the loop. Flaming bomb only and lettered as shipped to the Navy 2/26/1943. I'd go for it if the other s/n's match. Be sure to post some pix if you get it.

If the back strap stamp is a V followed by one or two more letters then one to three numbers it likely from a Naval Air squadron. Whatever they are it adds to the revolvers history. Take a penlight and magnifying glass with you.

 

[Absalom]

The V was together with the digits on one side through the five-digit numbers and frequently still on guns with six-digit numbers as long as the first digit was a 1. But during that serial range it moved to the other side of the lanyard screw hole. I don't recall ever seeing a V 2xxxxx all together, but see no reason why it shouldn't have happened.

Just the ordnance bomb on the butt indicates a DSC contract gun, with the other additional stampings applied by whatever non-military end user got the gun. Could have been a police agency or defense contractor.

If the price is right and you want one, there is no reason not to look at this one. It might have an interesting story. Check whether the numbers all match, including the right grip panel. If not, use that to try and depress the asking price

PS: The Chief is right and it could be another unstamped Navy gun, but the presence of additional non-standard markings makes that less likely, although still possible.

 

[DWalt]

Not sure what "trench art" grips are. Some carved-up example of the originals? V24xxxx probably shipped Feb to April 1943, very likely a DSC gun. Used by stateside law enforcement and defense plant guards. They were about the only civilians who could buy new guns during WWII.

 

[DWalt]

I have V241925 and the V is left of the loop. Flaming bomb only and lettered as shipped to the Navy 2/26/1943.

Does it have the "U. S. NAVY" topstrap stamping? I'd expect it should at that SN, unless it was one which was sent to the OSS. Those were sent to the Navy at Rosslyn VA. Exactly where does the letter say it was shipped?

 

[chiefdave]

Check whether the numbers all match, including the right grip panel. If not, use that to try and depress the asking price

Is this the same Absalom who recently accused me of trying to drive down the price of Victory's? I did purchase the Canadian revolver on that post and gave full asking price after the seller told me he would include the original grips. Won't tell you what I gave for a 5 digit s/n this week or you will petition the moderators to have my user name changed to CheapDave.

 

[chiefdave]

Does it have the "U. S. NAVY" topstrap stamping? I'd expect it should at that SN, unless it was one which was sent to the OSS. Those were sent to the Navy at Rosslyn VA. Exactly where does the letter say it was shipped?

U S Navy, Oakland, CA. Nothing on top strap and flaming bomb on grip frame in front of V, no P proof marks or inspectors initials.

 

[DWalt]

U S Navy, Oakland, CA. Nothing on top strap and flaming bomb on grip frame in front of V, no P proof marks or inspectors initials.

Curious that there is no topstrap stamp.

 

[dsk]

Not sure what "trench art" grips are. Some carved-up example of the originals?

"Trench Art" grips were hand-made in theater, either by bored GIs or by locals eager to sell stuff like that to American servicemen. The most well-known ones are the clear 1911 grips made from scrapped aircraft windshields that GIs often slipped a picture of their girl underneath (aka "Sweetheart" grips). Others include elephant ivory grips carved by local artisans in SE Asia and sold on the street to US soldiers while on leave in the cities. The ones on the revolver in question were hand-made out of some sort of ebony-colored wood and were painted with dragons and the serviceman's name and rank, along with "Korea 1950". That immediately piqued my interest even though the original grips are long gone.

 

[DWalt]

I guess that could be considered as trench art. I always think of that term as referring more to items like flower vases and ashtrays which were made out of fired artillery and small arms cases (most of which were not made in the trenches of WWI but rather in factories, for sale to postwar tourists).

 

[Ronbo6]

New Victory to post.

US NAVY marked pistol. Marked on top strap.

Serial # V151379. 4" in .38 Special.

Bare of any other 'special markings'

 

[DWalt]

V151379 probably shipped around November 1942. The early Navy-stamped Victories were made under Navy contract and typically do not have the markings of the later Victories in Navy use made under Army contracts. The U. S. NAVY topstrap stamp was used until around SN V265xxx in mid-1943. The Navy-stamped Victories will usually command some price premium if in high condition, but they are not rare. Much of their use was for arming naval aviation flight crews. Many remained in military service through the Vietnam era.

 

[LOBO]

Ishapor Victory Model with 5" barrel and in .38 S&W caliber.

A big thanks to the forum members that helped me with the meanings of some of the markings.

Looks like a "W" on its side?

Star on the frame and cylinder,

K.K.D.
9 43
10

Kirkee Arsenal in Kirkee India September of 1943

F.R.
R.F.I.
1967

Factory Repair, Rifle Factory Ishapoor in 1967

 

[Mk VII]

I didn't actually notice your location until now.

So do I understand correctly that it does have a post-service proof under the barrel? Could you show a picture?

Here it is:-

 

[Mk VII]

better pictures of No. 963611 this time.

 

[GreaseAndGlory]

USCG Marked

I'm new to the forum and I recently picked up this revolver (V437588). I have been seeking one with a USCG marking for a very long time. If any one can provide any info on it, I would greatly appreciate it. Eventually, I'm planning to get a smith and wesson factory letter for it. I'm hoping to get some vintage ammo to make a display. I was happy to come across this forum from a simple web search! There are a lot of great guns on here!!

 

[Quiet 1]

Great find and acquisition. A USCG; not a very common example and it appears to be in fine condition. Congratulations on adding it to your collection.

I also really enjoy this awesome Victory thread.

 

[DWalt]

This is one which should be lettered immediately. Allegedly there were only a very small number of Victories which were shipped directly to the USCG and virtually nothing is known about them. As anyone with an engraving machine could do the frame property marking, it is very important to attempt establishing that it is genuine Victory shipped to the USCG and not a forgery. Are there other stampings to be seen anywhere on the frame?

I have heard that those few Victories shipped directly to USCG were not property marked by S&W but I can't say if that is true. Yours likely shipped around October 1943. Were it originally a Navy gun which somehow found its way to the USCG later, it should have a U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping.

 

[GreaseAndGlory]

This is one which should be lettered immediately. Allegedly there were only a very small number of Victories which were shipped directly to the USCG and virtually nothing is known about them. As anyone with an engraving machine could do the frame property marking, it is very important to attempt establishing that it is genuine Victory shipped to the USCG and not a forgery. Are there other stampings to be seen anywhere on the frame?

I have heard that those few Victories shipped directly to USCG were not property marked by S&W but I can't say if that is true. Yours likely shipped around October 1943. Were it originally a Navy gun which somehow found its way to the USCG later, it should have a U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping.

I'll see if I can put in for a letter by the end of the week. It does have the U.S. Property stamp on top as seen below. My guess is that it came from another branch as surplus/transfer and was stamped when received. I could be way off on that. From my crude internet research, there was a small contract in 42 directly to the USCG, so this one falls out of those parameters. Maybe the factory letter will give us more insight. Thanks for the reply and info! Let me know if you have any other questions about it.