Walking Away

[biku324]

On Albuquerque Police....look at the 1992/93 Christopher Commission's discussion of a 'subculture of violence' and just plug in APD where it says 'LAPD' and see if there are enormous differences. I was not at all surprised at the murder of the homeless camper who was walking away with his back turned by overly aggressive APD officers - the video was worse than appalling. I hope they've been busy fixing that over the past few years.

BTW, I knew the APD partner of the (finally) acquitted officer in the case of the murdered wife of Levi Chavez. He got his job back, by the way, after being fired for reportedly lying to investigators in this case.

 

[Ματθιας]

On Albuquerque Police....look at the 1992/93 Christopher Commission's discussion of a 'subculture of violence' and just plug in APD where it says 'LAPD' and see if there are enormous differences. I was not at all surprised at the murder of the homeless camper who was walking away with his back turned by overly aggressive APD officers - the video was worse than appalling. I hope they've been busy fixing that over the past few years.

BTW, I knew the APD partner of the (finally) acquitted officer in the case of the murdered wife of Levi Chavez. He got his job back, by the way, after being fired for reportedly lying to investigators in this case.

To go along with what you said here's a preview of the Bad Apples book - just in case nobody believes me:

Google Books

The forward is interesting and it cuts off right when it starts to get good...

 

[transit]

It is worth considering that in most other civilized countries, like in Europe, becoming a fully trained police officer requires 2 to 3 years. The average US academy takes 3 to 6 months, with any further training at the whim of departments. And other countries' cops generally view the American practice of sending officers out alone in a patrol car with disbelief. Just some examples that come back to how much we're willing to invest in good policing.

Had to address this oft-misunderstood trope. It does not take years to become a police officer in Europe.

Rather, just like most agencies here, potential recruits get their "60 or 90 credits" or whatever is required for hire, before or as part of being hired.

-And that usually takes... two or three years. They do tend to spend that time in what we call "Criminal Justice" courses, a pursuit of study that, though common here as well, is largely useless as concerns the field. It's more of a "trade school" mentality towards it there.

Regardless, police academies in Europe are not three years long. It doesn't take three years to become a fighter pilot for goodness sake, and certainly not to become a basic patrolman.

A recruit for any major agency in the U.S. spends two, three or four years in college or the military because that is a pre-hiring requirement. Here, that college time is also often spent in CJ courses, though the wiser (or better advised) potential recruits take something that may actually be of value in their futures.

Then it's six months in the police academy. Then they're on probation for a year or more before being considered "fully trained." In NY, an officer is traditionally considered a rookie for five years.

But for some reason no one ever says that it takes "X-number of years" to become a police office here. Probably because it doesn't fit the, "Everyone else does everything better than us." narrative.

 

[pharmer]

One curious but beneficial "side effect" of this madness is the numbers of marked units parked in my neighborhood. less than 400 homes and at least 50 patrol cars in the streets. I guess the "higher ups" figure less chance of "negative encounters" if they don't report to the downtown cop shops. Laptop in every unit for roll call. Joe

 

[pawngal]

A lot of things I'd like to address in this thread so please, bear with.

Ref. Albuquerque, the first time I drove to Arizona by myself I was very bluntly told by several friends & relatives, Do NOT stay overnight in Albuquerque. Mentioned as the"armpit of the SW"

Judging by the number of new "likes" quite a few have read my old thread that I linked here previously. I plan to contact the retired Chief this week and visit with him about his thoughts about the current status of LE. The current Chief has turned out to be more of a desk jockey than I thought he would be., in nearly 3 years he has stopped in the pawnshop 2 or 3 times is all.

Do departments still do D.A.R.E. programs? Or similar offerings to school kids in a non-threatening manner.
LE needs to be involved in the community in non-LE activities. I realize this is hard in big city departments. In my small town departments they help with Little League, Scouts, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever and such. 2 local officers teach CC classes and Women's Self Defense classes.
Do I know the answers to any of the current state of LE? No, but I do know that we need to support the good guys and gals in any way we can.
Just some random thoughts...

 

[Absalom]

Had to address this oft-misunderstood trope. It does not take years to become a police officer in Europe.

Rather, just like most agencies here, potential recruits get their "60 or 90 credits" or whatever is required for hire, before or as part of being hired.
.........
Regardless, police academies in Europe are not three years long.
..........

Your statements are so general that they are wrong.

I'm neither knowledgeable about nor inclined to research practices in 40-some European countries, but since you give no indication which countries you think you're talking about, I'll just give an example I'm familiar with, the largest German state Northrhine-Westphalia.

After selection, you are assigned to the state's civil service college for a three-year combination study time during which you have to get your bachelor in police work, pass all practical police training modules, firearms training, etc., and complete a number of field training experiences. After that you are usually assigned to a readiness platoon for six months or more where you work in larger units under close supervision. After that you are assigned to your permanent duty station where you never patrol alone.

The only way to avoid this three-year course is if you already have completed a law degree. In that case, you can be admitted to a condensed 4-month practical course followed by a 6-month leadership intership, to prepare for higher positions in police administration.

 

[Farmer17]

Man, I just live in a different universe than a lot on this forum. I've never been arrested though there were times in my younger days I could have been, but I basically stay away from trouble and if I see any I go in the opposite direction even though a lot of times I might be curious. I don't hang out at the bars late at night so I guess I don't see some things that some people here see but I do work on some construction sights in some pretty bad neighborhoods. I've never seen on the news or anywhere else where a LE person uses excessive force against someone who was not resisting arrest. When the people start resisting sometimes the cops use too much force and of course they should be punished but that is pretty rare considering the 10 million arrests made every year in this country. No matter what happens and what changes are made in the future their will always be people resisting arrest and sometimes the police use of force to control them may be a little excessive. Stay the heck out of trouble and you won't have to worry about it.

 

[biku324]

In the Philippines all potential Philippine National Police enlistees must have a bachelors degree in criminal justice before 6 months' police training; some 200 a year are nominated into the Philippine National Police Academy, a 4-year bachelor of public safety degree with old-style US service academy style discipline.

 

[shell627]

Wow I think a lot of members here don't know real police officers. And I think some watch to much Chicago PD.Look Up the numbers of police officers ambushed shot hit with bricks urine feces and had cars firebombed in their driveways with their families home.We have been out working everyday in the virus while citizens and politicians stay behind locked doors.As the old
Indian said walk a mile in my moccasins.I watched my wife sit in the living room and load ar15 mags while the riots were going on in Nashville.She worries and pray's more than I ever remember.And it is not the criminals that worry her as much as the politicians and uninformed public.I have to stop now before I get in trouble again.

 

[charlie sherrill]

I debated with myself about joining this conversation. I was a LEO for over 40 years. My wife was also. She was killed on duty 35 years ago because fellow officers were trying to show constraint. They we trying to wrestle a resisting child molester down so they wouldn't have to hurt him. He came up with a gun and the first shot killed my wife and wounded another officer. I arrived at the scene a few minutes later and my first thought was to kill the ******* but knew if I did my small children wouldn't have anybody to pick them up from daycare. I told one of the other officers to get him out of there. I didn't tell him why I said that. The killer just happened to be black. I harbor no animosities toward black people because of the action of this one man. I've always been fair to everyone and still am. There was a very large funeral but no demonstrations and certainly no riots. Two of her pall bearers were black and we remained very good friends until they passed away. From what I can see, and it's not very clear, the officer in Minneapolis did not follow policy. I'm not going to take up for him, but I don't think he came to work that day looking for someone to kill. He violated policy but there was no malice and aforethought, a very important element in the crime of murder. At the very least he may be guilty of manslaughter or whatever they call that in Minneapolis. The Constitution provides for the right of peaceful protest. You don't have the right to riot, kill, loot, or burn things up. I mostly agree with the protesters. I don't even come close to agreeing with the rioters. If you will look at the rioters backgrounds you will find that most are PAID outside agitators that are bussed in to create trouble and weaken our nations laws and our peoples rights. There is proof they are paid and the government knows who is paying them. Why are the people bankrolling the anarchy not being arrested and prosecuted? Could it be that they have contributed to many political campaigns and already have too much immunity from prosecution? I've got another large problem with all of this. Evey week across this country hundreds of blacks are killed. But, it's not white folks doing this. They are doing it to each other. Why doesn't BLM and others start programs or whatever to stop this slaughter? This is a terrible waste of life and I very seldom hear anyone discuss this problem, and when they do they want to do away with 2A and not try to change the attitudes that cause this. If I'm wrong on this you can let me know, but I've had several good black friends killed for some pretty stupid reasons.

 

[transit]

Your statements are so general that they are wrong.

I'm neither knowledgeable about nor inclined to research practices in 40-some European countries, but since you give no indication which countries you think you're talking about, I'll just give an example I'm familiar with, the largest German state Northrhine-Westphalia.

After selection, you are assigned to the state's civil service college for a three-year combination study time during which you have to get your bachelor in police work, pass all practical police training modules, firearms training, etc., and complete a number of field training experiences. After that you are usually assigned to a readiness platoon for six months or more where you work in larger units under close supervision. After that you are assigned to your permanent duty station where you never patrol alone.

The only way to avoid this three-year course is if you already have completed a law degree. In that case, you can be admitted to a condensed 4-month practical course followed by a 6-month leadership intership, to prepare for higher positions in police administration.

You answer evinces a lack of familiarity with the American process of the last few decades.

In the U.S. the potential recruit attends college for two or three years, (a few agencies now require a four year degree. Most do not) or he does an enlistment in the military, generally three or four years.

THEN he pursues the initial civil service testing, followed by a background investigation, etc. Then he goes to the six month training academy where he has to pass all practical police training modules, firearms, etc. including a number of field training experiences.

Then, upon successful completion, he is assigned to a field training program lasting some months to a year.

Then he's assigned to a permanent duty station, where he is still considered inexperienced and closely supervised and his assignments chosen accordingly. He remains on probation throughout this period, generally around two years, during which time he may be dismissed for any reason.

In effect, the two systems are nearly identical. The only difference is completing the college/enlistment portion pre-hire or post.

Unless you believe that a "bachelors in police work" is of more value to a policeman than a recruit who studies accounting or computers, etc. I can assure you that it is not.

-Or, unless you just think everyone else does everything better than we do.

 

[jughed440]

Memphis is desperate for new cops. Its not uncommon for a young person to get hired, get trained, serve just a few years and then start applying for a police job elsewhere. They never really wanted to work there. They just needed a place to start.
I imagine a lot of big cities have the same problem.

I don't blame them at all. That goes for any recruits who have to deal with sinister city officials and higher-ups who are using society's low-life trash to do their dirty work.
As stated before, it's all part of a master plan.. hopefully people are finally understanding why the perpetrators of the big plan want the 2nd Amendment to be gone.

 

[pawngal]

You answer evinces a lack of familiarity with the American process of the last few decades.

In the U.S. the potential recruit attends college for two or three years, (a few agencies now require a four year degree. Most do not) or he does an enlistment in the military, generally three or four years.

THEN he pursues the initial civil service testing, followed by a background investigation, etc. Then he goes to the six month training academy where he has to pass all practical police training modules, firearms, etc. including a number of field training experiences.

Then, upon successful completion, he is assigned to a field training program lasting some months to a year.

Then he's assigned to a permanent duty station, where he is still considered inexperienced and closely supervised and his assignments chosen accordingly. He remains on probation throughout this period, generally around two years, during which time he may be dismissed for any reason.

In effect, the two systems are nearly identical. The only difference is completing the college/enlistment portion pre-hire or post.

Unless you believe that a "bachelors in police work" is of more value to a policeman than a recruit who studies accounting or computers, etc. I can assure you that it is not.

-Or, unless you just think everyone else does everything better than we do.

Since you list no location by your forum handle I have no idea what area of the US you base your info on.
But I do know it does not apply to most, if not all smaller departments.

Here is a link that shows the Iowa requirements, nothing like all the high falauting stuff you list as the US "requirements"
Your list sounds like a federal one.

How to Become a Police Officer in Iowa

 

[Fishslayer]

Anyone who has grown up in Albuquerque, knows to stay away from APD.

I grew up in Los Angeles. We knew about the LAPD long before anybody had heard of Rodney King.

 

[Absalom]

.....-Or, unless you just think everyone else does everything better than we do.

^^^ This seems to be the main bee in your bonnet.

I have no interest in playing topper here. If we have departments that require all you describe, great. I checked out requirements randomly across a half dozen states and found nothing like it anywhere.

Mostly: Showing the equivalent of two years course work (not even a two-year degree) in any "social" field, or two years military, pass the entrance test, academy, and "field training", which seens to mean you are assigned to a training officer buddy and already working as a cop in the wild.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Well I can completely understand why they feel that way with the way things are happening over the last ten years and more so today.

At one time, "Most" of our people had respect for law officers but just last week a fire bomb was tossed at a police car by...............

A lawyer and a legal secretary !!

 

[JJEH]

I don't want to say how I really feel, the internet would ban me for life.

But the mob is like a child throwing a fit and now we have to accommodate them in any way they want otherwise we are racists, biggots, you name it.

I never had a problem with peaceful protestors.... make your voice heard, absolutely, LEO's walk with the crowd or take a knee for a prayer. This has my support. But this rioting, looting, setting buildings on fire and even the killing of innocent people has NOTHING to do with justice for Mr. Floyd.

I don't care what Floyd did in the past, the knee on the neck is wrong and no one in this country was denying that. Now, all those democrats do is a knee jerk reaction just to please the mob. Giving in to the child that's throwing a fit. Even Chief's laying on the ground, hands behind their back. These people make me sick.

All it takes is common sense. This whole incident don't make no sense and I wish we had a truly independent agency that would investigate.

 

[pantannojack]

I'm up for a 100 mil demonstration in support of LEO's

 

[Onomea]

Some people have difficulty distinguishing between protestors and rioters. In DC alone, over the weekend, there were "tens of thousands" of protestors. Of them, and of the protestors throughout the country, what percentage were rioters, do you suppose?

Some people have difficulty in distinguishing between bad cops and the great majority of officers doing a difficult job well. What percentage of cops are bad actors, do you suppose?

I suspect the percentages are similar.

The cops joining the legitimate protestors are doing a great thing, a powerful, healing action, for their communities, for our society. They are saying they are part of the community. They are showing that they are trying to be part of the solution.

 

[OFT II]

A protestor is a person marching along carrying a sign. A rioter is a person running and carrying a TV set.