Walther PP series--got any?

[Harkrader]

I had exactly one PP and liked it better than any pre-S&W PPK. If a PP with the extended tang is ever offered I'd buy one.

 

[BB57]

Was considering one of these as they have a threaded muzzle. My PPK-L is too valuable to molest. However, I'm not finding reviews of the Umarex rimfires after they've been used a while. I've heard they are made from die cast zinc? Can you go into detail with your experiences with yours, please?

Sure...

I have over 2000 rounds through mine and it's generally not picky about ammo. The only semi-auto .22 I have that is less picky is my Beretta Model 71. (which given that the current Israeli surplus Model 71s come pre-threaded, would be my first choice for a suppressed pistol given that it's already threaded although the PPKS come in a close second as its also easily adapted to a suppressor with the use of a readily available threaded barrel nut:

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The PPK/S .22 LR uses Zamak alloy in the frame and slide and this is a zinc alloy.

Detractors call it "pot metal" but there's a critical difference. Pot metal isn't all that dimensionally stable and cracks over time, but that's due to the high level of impurities in pot metal.

Zamak, and in particular the Zamak alloys used in firearms have a very high degree of purity and won't warp or crack over time.

As an example, the Ithaca Model 49 and 72 lever action .22 rifles made in the 1960s and 1970s were made with a Zamak alloy frame, and you'll still find them in use today.

Similarly, the Henry lever action .22 is very popular now and it has a large number of fans who swear by its utility and durability. But guess what? It's just a slightly rewarmed version of the Ithaca Model 72 lever action complete with Zamak alloy frame (with a cosmetic metal receiver cover).

There are also people who claim the PPK/S .22 LR is not a PPK/S at all but rather a P22 in PPK/S clothing. That's not true either. The only resemblance to the P22 is the use of a barrel liner with a barrel nut on the end to retain it.

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Let's compare my L66A1 version of the Walther PP in .22 LR with the PPK/S .22 LR:

Removing the slide shows the general PP layout. You'll notice that the PPK/S .22 LR uses a steel barrel shroud which includes the chamber face, an area where Zamak alloy would not wear as well. The barrel shroud has a P22 style barrel liner through it, with the barrel nut holding it in tension, but the shroud itself is retained in the frame just like the barrel in the PP or in a PPK/S.

In both pistols the .22 LR cartridge requires a lighter slide. That's done in the PP by thinning the sides of the steel slide, and in the PPK/S .22LR it's done by using Zamak alloy. The slides of the two are otherwise very similar.

The lockwork is clearly PP series and while you'll see minor differences in execution and the lack of some refinements like a loaded chamber indicator, it is still clearly a PP series pistol.

The small parts show a little less attention to detail in finish, compared to a PP, but that's understandable at the price point, and in terms of function, mine has held up just fine for welder 2000 rounds. You'll note here that they've created a cover of the normal open space under the grip, in order to add weight to the frame and keep it closer to the PPK/S in over all feel.

The magazine design on the PPK/S is vastly superior to the PP's .22 LR magazine. Any one who has owned a PP in .22 LR will tell you that it's really an 8 round magazine and isn't reliable with more than 8 loaded in it. In contrast the PPK/S .22 LR is an honest 120 round .22 pistol. The trade off is a longer magazine however and you won't have the option of a flush floor plate - at least in a factory magazine (there are a couple people who'll modify them).

The new magazine is also more reliable as it lets the cartridges splay a little farther, and the angle of the rounds is greater so that rim lock is not as big an issue. The magazines are also readily available and don't cost $110-$125 each like a PP magazine in .22 LR.

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As noted before, my PPK/S .22LR is just as reliable as my PP, but with 10 rounds rather than 8. It's just as accurate, and it's not as ammo sensitive as my PP.

Now...will it ever be an heirloom or collectors item? Probably not any more so than an Ithaca 72 or a Henry .22 LR. But it is none the less a very fun little pistol to shoot that has held up to well over 2000 rounds so far with no significant wear.

And for the money it's hard to beat as they seem to be going out the door now for around $300-$325. That's less than half of what you'd pay for a PP in .22 LR, but it's about the same as what the rapidly drying up Beretta Model 71 pistols are selling for at the moment.

 

[digi-shots]

Great looking guns!

Here's my one and only, 1967 non-import marked, PPK/L and it's "alligator" box:

 

[SG-688]

It's definitely a YMMV question .. but my '67 .22 PPK-L has always been good full up with my several PPK and PP magazines.

Thanks for the encouraging review of the PPK/S.

 

[Big E3]

Here's my PP, still a great shooter. The grips have been replaced with period correct replacements. It came with Pachmayr grips and that's just wrong on a 1929 first year of production Walther PP.

 

[2152hq]

The only one I have left is a 1937 or 38 mfg PPK in 32acp. Nazi Eagle/C Police marked.
Came to me in a brown leather flap holster, Nazi marked and maker marked.. Two magazines. Shoots great , very accurate even out to 50yrds.
I've had several PPK, PP pistols. Favorites were a couple 1960's vintage 22cal PPK and PP pistols in their original boxes w/ extra mags ect.
The PP was non InterArms marked as it was orig bought by a GI while in W Germany and brought home.
The PPK 22 I carried for many years and traded it for a deluxe Marlin Model 97 lever action rifle. Still miss the PPK but the rifle is outstanding too. Several PPk and PP 32's and a couple PP 380's came and went,,all war-time issues.

Bought an arm load of the Euro Police trade ins when they came on the market in the 90's. Sold all of them. Bought some really cheap ones from AIM that were sold AS-IS, but all they needed was to be properly re-assembled. I think one needed a slide catch spring which I had.
Too late now,,but I wish I'd have kept maybe one or two of them!

I missed a chance to buy a PPK in 6.35mm (25acp) about 20 yrs ago as I didn't have the cash with me at the moment,, the next guy did.. It was missing the magazine and needed some love,,but it's a rare pistol. Very few PP and PPK made in 25acp.
(The magazine is a Model 8 Walther mag inserted inside the PPK mag body, so it could have been assembled.)
That's one gun I really regret missing out on.

Never had a PPK/S nor one of the later licensed copies of the PPK.
Still like 'em. Who knows I may even buy another if I see one I like.
They look nice engraved..

 

[Brian in Oregon]

BB57 thanks for the detailed write up and pics!

 

[Engine49guy]

Left to right are Iver Johnson .22, Interarms SS .380 PPK, Excam .22lr, Interarms blue .380 PPK


Sidebar is the Hk-4 that is interchangeable to fire .22lr, .25 ACp, .32 ACP and .380 ACP

 

[bigjohn4]

Will PP or PPK/S magazines work in the FEG made clones?

 

[Darkstar888]

Will PP or PPK/S magazines work in the FEG made clones?

Afraid not. They only work in Walthers.

 

[max]

For you Walther guys, my LGS has a Model 8 complete with holster. PM me if you want the phone number.

 

[Darkstar888]

For you Walther guys, my LGS has a Model 8 complete with holster. PM me if you want the phone number.

Just linked this on the Walther forum. Thanks for the info. How's the condition? Price?

 

[max]

I will have to look closely at the condition and check the price.

 

[Darkstar888]

Thanks bud. I'll post any info on the Walther forum. If you can take pics or get the serial number too that would be sweet.

 

[Andyd]

.32 ACP Walther PPs are plentiful and had at some time flooded the surplus market. Over the years I had several of the early Zella-Mehlis Waffenamt proofed guns and post-war Manurhin pistols. Most of them were quite accurate and reliable but for me as a reloader retrieving the brass was a nightmare and I always sold them off again.

I also had a Manurhin PP Sport in .22 l.r. and played with grips and barrel weights but finally sold it to a more deserving collector who needed it to fill a void in his Walther collection.

I have a very early PP in .22 l.r. that was one of the earliest Walther PPs in that calibre. I got that gun in the 1980s and it enjoyed shooting this accurate and reliable fun pistol until I gave it to my son for his 21st birthday. I have dozen magazines for it and it is still in my safe.

A friend who is a toolmaker made the weight for me and I finished and rust blued it.

The Manurhin PP Sport without barrel weight, regular grips and magazine shoe and the Zella-Mehlis Walther PP with its 90° safety.

Of all the .32 ACPs that I had at the same time and compared, the Walther PP was the one that I could shoot most accurately.

 

[Frank46]

Bunch of years ago I found one of the French made Manhurin PP's in 32 acp. Had a couple boxes of Federal 32 auto and off to the range we went. Rapid fire, slow fire not one problem in feeding or ejecting and the little pistol is quite accurate as well. Definitely a little classic. Frank

 

[BB57]

Bunch of years ago I found one of the French made Manhurin PP's in 32 acp. Had a couple boxes of Federal 32 auto and off to the range we went. Rapid fire, slow fire not one problem in feeding or ejecting and the little pistol is quite accurate as well. Definitely a little classic. Frank

From 1952 when post war production of the PP restarted until 1986, all the Walther PP, PPK and PPK/S pistols were made by Manurhin (with the exception of those made by Ranger beginning in 1978).

In essence, with Germany prohibited from making small arms, except under very limited, tightly controlled or unusual circumstances (such as the French order of P.38 pistols to arm an influx of mostly former SS into the Foreign Legion), Walther out sourced manufacture of the PP series pistols to Manurhin.

Manurhin, short for Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin, was located, obviously, in Haut-Rin in France which was in the Alsace-Lorraine region of France that had been annexed by Germany in 1871 and stayed that way until 1918.

Under this arrangement, Walther forged the frames and slides and then exported them to Manurhin, who made all the small parts and then did all the machining, roll marking, heat treating, polishing, and finish work on the slides and frames, as well as the final assembly, and quality assurance checks.

Beginning in 1953 the PP pistol was imported into the US by Tholson Co. and then starting in 1956 it was imported by Interarms and this continued until 1984. From 1984 to 1986 Manurhin began importing them directly to the US as well and these pistols are different from the Walther marked guns, as they will have Manurhin stamped on the left front of the slide, and also no Interarms roll mark on then right side.

After 1960 when restrictions eased, Walther started "making" PP series pistols again, but this was only a minor modification of it's arrangement with Manurhin. In essence, the only difference was that the slides were not roll marked, heat treated or finished by Manurhin, but instead shipped to Walther who then roll marked them, heat treated them via an induction current process, and then finished the slides and assembled the pistols on Manurhin finished frames with Manurhin made small parts. This qualified as "made in Germany" as under German law it was the roll mark that constituted manufacture of the pistol. This is also why you'll find post war to 1986 Walther pistols with blued slides and frames that don't quite match.

In 1986, Walther Walther ended their agreement with Manurhin and finally began making their pistols entirely on their own. And generally speaking the quality was lower.

Meanwhile, as noted above, back in the US Ranger started making the PPK and PPK/S under license in 1978 and these pistols were sold through Interarms.

 

[armorer951]

Walther PPK

While serving as a forward observer in WW2, my dad recovered this PPK. Have no idea how he was able to get it home.

Serial number 235553 K....anyone have an idea when it was produced? I think it was probably a pre-war pistol. I remember reading that quality suffered as the war went on. One resource I read indicated it was manufacured in 1939.

 

[BB57]

While serving as a forward observer in WW2, my dad recovered this PPK. Have no idea how he was able to get it home.

Serial number 235553 K....anyone have an idea when it was produced? I think it was probably a pre-war pistol. I remember reading that quality suffered as the war went on.

The serial number places it near the end of 1939, probably around November, so not strictly "pre-war", but certainly before quality started to fall off.

Generally speaking it was not hard to bring back a captured German pistol after WWII, it just involved some paperwork, and if you can find that paper it will add to the value of the pistol.

 

[kwill1911]

My father was a lineman with the 71st Infantry Division and brought this PP back from Germany.

 

[Dump1567]

Had this for awhile, but let it go last year.






Now I'm down to these two.

 

[BB57]

My father was a lineman with the 71st Infantry Division and brought this PP back from Germany.

That serial should put it around March 1938.

 

[Darkstar888]

All you guys should join up the Walther forum. Lots of great people and great info on there. All questions can be answered there.

 

[S&W629]

Have absolutely 0 interest in joining the "Walther forum"....

 

[Darkstar888]

Not you buddy. I wasn't talking to you. They have "0" interest in your kind over there anyway. I was talking to other Walther fans who posted in this thread. You came here just to reject an invitation not directed at you. Go back under the bridge with the other trolls. Lol

 

[Ed Fowler]

My 1970 vintage Interarms 22 cal ppks just jammed on me today, the extractor failed to eject the spent round! Been shooting it using CCI mini mags and it is my carry gun. This is the first jam in over 30 years, shoot it almost daily, 11 to 31 rounds, carry three magazines.

I was just thinking how dependable it had been. Can't be too critical!

 

[Andyd]

That serial should put it around March 1938.

That was a privately purchased pistol, most likely an officer's sidearm as commissioned officers bought their own handguns.

As a sidenote, I am always amazed at all the Lugers that have WaA markings that were almost exclusively taken off officers.

 

[BB57]

Not you buddy. I wasn't talking to you. They have "0" interest in your kind over there anyway. I was talking to other Walther fans who posted in this thread. You came here just to reject an invitation not directed at you. Go back under the bridge with the other trolls. Lol

I suspect many of the Walther fans here are already members of the Walther Forum.

The two forums share a lot in common, in terms of being inhabited (for the most part) by polite folks who don't rant away with radical or offensive opinions and it's also devoid of political discussion.

 

[kwill1911]

That was a privately purchased pistol, most likely an officer's sidearm as commissioned officers bought their own handguns.

As a sidenote, I am always amazed at all the Lugers that have WaA markings that were almost exclusively taken off officers.

Thanks. I'm not sure how he came to have it. He never talked about his experiences during the war.

 

[ky wonder]

I only have the one its a 67 380 and the only import markings on it is the right grip where it is marked interarms, nothing at all on the metal of the gun shows import markings just the right grip