Wesson 659 barrel bushing question

[Tomahawk674]

Hello everyone, I have a question about my S&W 659. I bought this gun about 8 years ago. I haven not put that many rounds through it, maybe less than 1000. I bought it used and in good condition, but I don't know how many rounds it had when I got it. I read somewhere that the barrel bushing was a "wear" part, and that it was designed to be changed when worn. How can I tell if the bushing it worn?

When the gun is in battery, the barrel is snug. If I lock the slide back, I feel play from the barrel inside the bushing, but I assumed that is normal. Can anyone tell me?

Does the bushing affect accuracy like on 1911s? I have never been able to be suer accurate with this gun. I had 3 dot sights installed by Novak. The best "accuracy" I can achieve is keeping all shots inside a 12 inch gong at about 20 yards. It could definitely be me that is the problem however. I am able to outshoot it with me Bersa thunder 380. I already had a reputable gunsmith do a trigger job which improved the trigger, but it's no target gun. I also understand these are service pistols...

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[armorer951]

You are correct in your assessment of the gun in terms of it being designed and fit for it's intended purpose....a military/police sidearm. As such, bullseye accuracy is not one of the gun's attributes. For a true picture of the pistol's capabilities, test it supported off of a bench on a paper target at 15 yards. It should shoot a 3-4" group at that distance with appropriate factory ammunition. Considerable wear and tear would be required to make the bushing unusable. I've never had to replace a broken or excessively worn one. It is normal for the barrel to be loose in the slide when the gun is locked open.

While the fit of the bushing is important in terms of consistent lock-up of the gun, the end use (M&P) of the pistol, and concerns about production cost will dictate how tightly the bushing will be fit. Also, some gauge is required between the interface of the barrel and bushing when the gun is in battery so that the barrel is able to cam down at the breech end the required 1-1.5 degrees when the gun is fired, and the barrel and slide "unlock".

 

[stansdds]

The barrel bushings used in the 39/59/x39/x59 pistols tend to be quite loose fitting. I doubt that yours is worn out. You can still buy these bushings, Numrich Gun Parts still has them, so you might luck out and get one that is a little tighter. Then again, you might get one that is even looser. As far as I know, there are no match grade type barrel bushings available for these pistols.

My 439, with ammo it likes, can get 4 inch groups at 25 yards when fired from a bench rest position. With ammo it does not like, the groups open up to 6 inches. Simply put, these are not target pistols, they are military/police pistols. Very reliable, but built loose to be reliable when dirty and the accuracy suffers.

 

[Tomahawk674]

Very informative replies, thank you so much! I saw the bushings available at Numrich, for $20 I may try one out of curiosity.

 

[GaryS]

What type of ammunition are you using? Bullet weight can affect accuracy. My compact 3rd Gen 9mm seem to prefer 147gr, but shoot okay with 124gr. 115gr results in low shots.

 

[Tomahawk674]

I was running federal bulk 115gr.

 

[ispcapt]

Leave it alone, save your $20 and spend it on ammo.
If the barrel and bushing are snug then the bushing is not worn. I've never seen a bushing worn out from just shooting.
If you get a bushing that's too tight it could very well induce failure to go into battery.
Spend you money on ammo. Practice. A 659 is a tank. Highly unlikely it's worn out. Most people don't have enough money to buy all the ammo it would take to wear on out. Additionally, most people don't have the time nor shoot enough to wear out a gun, particularly a 659. If you're just shooting Fed bulk 115 you sure aren't going to wear it out.
Don't mess with the gun. Practice.

 

[GaryS]

Personally, I'd try a couple of other bullet weights just to see if it makes a difference.

I was running federal bulk 115gr.

 

[stansdds]

I will agree, before replacing what is likely an in-spec bushing, try some 124 and 147 grain ammo. I have owned only four 9x19's (so far), and they all seemed to do better with 124 or 147 grain ammo.

 

[Tomahawk674]

I'm taking the advice given; I called Numrich and all they have are used bushings. I'm only guessing those come off of guns that are ruined and parted out, so mine is probably better than anything they have, unless someone has new OEM ones.

 

[Sevens]

I would agree they come from parted-out guns, but no reason to suggest the guns (or the parts) were ruined or unusable.

Lots of stuff ends up at Numrich. Could have been OEM unused, could have been barely used, scheduled for destruction where only the frame was destroyed.

Really could be anything.

 

[WR Moore]

IIRC, the bushing in the 659 is a press in bushing. Changing it would probably be more work than you think. You made a good decision by forgetting the idea.

Barrel bushings in the era when the 1911 was designed were indeed wear parts. They sort of still are, but the steels are a lot different than they were in 1900. Look at the number of recent designs that don't have bushings at all.

I suspect that practice ammo, maybe a little work by someone who knows what they're doing to move the SA pull down toward S&W 4 1/2 lb lower limit would be a lot more help.

If you don't know how many rounds are through the gun, did you change the recoil spring? If not, it's a good idea.

 

[Sevens]

Not correct -- the 2nd Gen full size 9mm's all have removable bushings exactly like the 39/59. The .45cal 2nd Gens (645, 745) and the 2nd Gen "mini guns" 469 and 669 used the newer style pressed in, not easily removable bushing.

 

[WR Moore]

Yeah, I discovered that about 3 hours later when I had a chance to check the parts book. Been a long time.

That being the case, it would be possible to tighten things up at that end, but the results wouldn't be worth the cost.

 

[Cactus2]

I was running federal bulk 115gr.

Try some SIG 124-125 ammo. It is Sierra bullets with a long body. Sierra is known for accuracy. Or handload some Sierra hollow points with 231 /HP38 / Unique.

 

[Tomahawk674]

I'm not sure my local wally world has fancy 9mm ammo. I also do enjoy $10 per 50 rounds.

So I just got done clearning the gun from the last shooting session. With the barrel out of the slide, putting the bushing on it feels very loose. I asked my wife, who has excellent eyesight, to look inside the bushing and check for any type of wear. She said she saw nothing at all.

So just to clarify, the bushing is not supposed to be snug or hug the barrel much right? Any guys who can field strip in 45 seconds and give me their feedback

 

[armorer951]

Just used a micrometer/caliper to check three of mine and the barrels were .530 to .531", and the bushings were .533". Bushings appear to be approx .002" over the barrel O.D.

 

[Tomahawk674]

That's useful info. I'll get my hands on a caliper.

 

[Rock185]

Tomahawk, FWIW, I've owned a number of 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. Gen S&W pistols. The 1st. and 2nd. Gen bushings for most models are drop-in, and do not fit the slide or barrel tightly as a match bushing would. Yes, the bushing can affect accuracy as in a 1911, but as you say, "these are service" pistols. Some shoot better than others. I don't recall any of mine, other than the 3rd. Gen. Performance Center guns, displaying more than service pistol accuracy. But 12" at 20 yards does seem excessive. My guns were in that same 4"-6" range for 5 shots at 25 yards when shooting carefully from the bench as mentioned by stansdds. Looseness with the slide out of battery is completely normal. Might another bushing fit more precisely, just due to manufacturing tolerances? Sure might. Would it necessarily tighten your groups? Maybe, maybe not.