What has happened to Smith And Wesson?

[dantanna58]

2 month's ago I went to my local gun shop and purchased 2 brand new S&W revolvers. A 686 and a 629. I have been a fan of S&W revolvers since the 70's. I own several classic model's that I retired.
I wanted the 686 for home defense and the 629 for boar hunting.
I could not wait to try them out I so I went straight to my local range with 2 friends. I loaded the 686 and cocked it and that was it.
Nothing, it locked up cocked and loaded. The range master came over and said he had seen this happen often with new S&W's internal locks. We tried the keys and they did not work. So he removed the cylinder , unloaded it then put it back in the gun. Send it back to S&W he said. So not to let the day be a total loss I tried the 629. It was shooting low and left. I adjusted the sights and it was still doing it. I raised the sights as high as I could and to the right as far as it would go and tried 4 different brands and bullet weights. Then my friend looked at it and noticed the barrel was not lining up with the frame. The barrel was turned way out of line with the frame as if it was over tightened. The range master came over again looked at it and laughed saying "Did you not check these out before buying them"? "They are brand" new I said. Long story short, ( Too Late). I sent them back to S&W. 3 weeks later they returned together. A letter stated the 629 was within factory specs. It was unchanged. So I took the 686 back to the range, loaded it, fired 2 rounds then "click". It locked up again. I sent it back to S&W. They sent it back to me. Without firing it I tried the action and darn it. It happened again. I fiddled with the lock and the hammer dropped. So I took both guns to my local shop and traded them in on a Ruger Redhawk and a GP 100. I lost $300 in the trade. I took these to the range and had a great time. No mishaps at all. I fired over 100 rounds through each of them. Has anyone else ran into these problems with S&W? They used to build such wonderful revolvers. I've heard nothing bad about their new auto's. I guess I'm just a classic S&W and Ruger fan from here on. I'll never buy another new S&W revolver. Ever!

 

[Dump1567]

You can get lemons new or old S&W's. I own both. I find the lock-up and timing more consistent and tighter on the newer production guns than on some of the older ones I've owned. I've seen canted barrels on both old and new. Neither affected accuracy for me.

The internal lock has been a problem for many. I remove the locks and replace them with the plug. (do a search).

Some people will only buy pre-lock and pre-MIM guns.
I prefer pre-lock guns, but I'll still buy new lock guns if that's the only version available for the model I want (ie; 386).

My advice for you would be to stick with the older pre-lock guns and inspect thoroughly before purchasing.

 

[ltxi]

Welcome or not to "new Smith". I bought my first new Smith revolver in maybe 15 years about six months ago. While I had no real performance issues, given the build quality of mine your problems sadly do not surprise me. Fortunately there are plenty of used, real Smiths out there.

 

[bigshep85]

This is why classic s&w revolvers will continue to go up in value and why i buy them.....they literally will never again make them like they used to.
If their "within specs" has gotten to the point that they will ship out revolvers that have canted barrels and will not shoot straight then who knows what other flaws they ship out that are "within specs"

I will continue to buy classic s&w revolvers because they really are works of art

 

[mc5aw]

So I took both guns to my local shop and traded them in on a Ruger Redhawk and a GP 100. I lost $300 in the trade.

If the problems are as you described, and you clearly explained them to S&W, your trade-in was premature and costly. The 686 seems to have had a faulty IL mechanism, while the 629 sounds like a canted barrel, a problem which others have posted about. Both of these are issues that S&W is very willing to rectify ... if not on the first return, then on subsequent returns until it is made right. You should have made more of a concerted effort to speak directly with customer service and explain the problems, insisting upon two trouble free revolvers, be they repaired or replaced.

 

[senecaap]

Smith has outsourced its quality control to the consumer, with no cut in price. There have always been lemons, but the ones that are getting out are of S&W today are huge, yellow, screaming "I'M A LEMON" into a bullhorn.

And if we give any credence to the OP, Smith can't even fix a problem when it is identified and sent to them.......twice. So Smith failed three times, First in letting it out in the factory then twice more from repair.

Who are they trying to be, Kimber?

 

[alaskavett]

The real speciqal part with the "lock" guns is that if they LOCK up on you they can never wear out! Kyle

 

[NFrameFred]

Nothing to see here, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, everything is just fine . . . . it's all in your mind. Just look at the dozens of new customers we had last week who haven't complained a bit . . .

 

[Titan]

How long have you worked for Ruger?

 

[turbo38gn]

I think there's a saying that goes something like this... if it seems to unbelievable to be true... it usually is not.. interpret this as you like.

 

[dantanna58]

In response to some of the reply's received. I have friends that own M&P auto's and AR style rifles. These guns just run and run without fail. The M&P's especially. They are giving Glock a true run for their money. One fellow I know has fired hundreds of rounds through his piece and treats it like a hammer. It has never failed him. But that's on the other side of their production. I am the very proud owner of several S&W revolvers in great condition. A snub model 27, snub 66, 5 inch nickel model 10, 4 inch nickel model 58,
6 inch model 19, 6 inch nickel model 57, 3 inch model 13, 8 3/8 nickel model 29, 4 inch model 12, snub model 15. All in great to pristine condition living on satin pillows. I bought these new guns to shoot and use. But after receiving a letter about one (629) being in factory specs and another (686) being sent back twice and still not being able to depend on it after spending $1400 plus for both.
I had enough. I'm not altering the guns. I should not have to. They are or were S&W's. I know the sun is setting on the revolver
except for a few specialized sports and some old hold outs like us. Especially for a fighting handgun. But I have seen that S&W seems to be putting all their resources into the plastic semi auto market. That's where the money is these days. I do know after handling a lot of their new guns that they are not what they used to be. Beautiful blue finish, hard as rock nickel finish, case hardened hammers and triggers, silky smooth actions etc. At least I own some prime examples of their finest guns. And I have 2 new Rugers that are my working guns that won't let me down.
I will correct myself on one thing when I said I won't buy S&W anymore. I meant revolvers. I'm going today to but one of their new M&P shields for my wife. At least they build a fantastic auto.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

That's very infortunate and SAD really that an American icon like S&W has dropped the ball in this way. I believe most new generation Smiths do work well with minimal or no issues. But, from my experience as a member here it's apparent to me that there are certainly issues to be resolved that it seems Smith is not interested in correcting.

My first 2 Smiths I purchased 2 years ago were a 686-6 and a 629-6 Classic. Both pieces have performed flawlessly for me and very consistantly place 2" or smaller groups at 50'. I am a happy customer and plan on passing these to my son someday.

But, my third Smith purchase was a 1971 M19-3 in 4". And I must admit that I have discovered first hand why so many are so in love with the older pre-lock models. That ol' 19 consistantly outperforms it's new counterparts in every way. Even with the shorter barrel it groups tighter, usually about an inch at 50'. It has a lighter SA trigger and smoother DA pull. I am in no way dissatisfied with the other two, but my lil' M19 is just on another level in comparison.

I said all that to say this, I have no reason from my personal experience to dislike or quit buying the new ones (still have an X-Frame on "The List") but by and large, I will be mainly seeking the golden oldies from here on out.

 

[mc5aw]

I know the sun is setting on the revolver ...

James "Mall Ninja" Yeager said the exact same thing in one of his videos.

 

[Titegroups]

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[chief38]

For the most part the Smith & Wesson Revolvers PRIOR to the mid 1990's are high quality, reliable and sought after guns. I would seek out comparable models from that era and earlier and I think you will have better luck.

Not only has the Factory been fixated on the internal lock, but they are now using MIM parts, synthetic grips, and in general they have cut corners and cheapened their product IMHO. They have also widened their specification tolerances so that guns made 20 years ago that would have been pulled from the "OK to ship dept." would go back and be repaired. Today they have just increased their tolerances and sometime I think all they require for the gun to be shipped is for it to go bang!

I personally have never and will never own a S&W produced after the mid 90's and I have never had any major problems. There are plenty of fellas here and all over that have no problem or dislike with the I/L and the MIM parts and that is their prerogative; and it's mine to think and buy the way I do.

While I am a traditionalist and in general I am not fond of change, I can accept it and I would look forward to it if the changes the Factory was making did really improve and upgrade their firearms. Unfortunately, I personally do not think that is the case with S&W. I also believe that S&W's vision is toward Auto Loaders and I do not believe they really care about making revolvers for a whole lot longer. Their belief is that soon the Auto will obsolete the revolver. Who knows.........maybe they are right.

Thankfully there are still plenty of their older guns left on the open market for sale. They are getting a bit pricey these days, but I don't mind paying for he quality I want and demand. I truly believe that if they ever came out with Revolvers manufactured and configured the way they were 20 years ago they would be selling a whole lot more of them - but as we all know that ain't gonna happen!

Chief38

 

[Chrisj357]

That is unfortunate

I agree you should have tried again (harder) to get S&W to rectify the problem. I have a M19-3 that I have loved shooting for years. Its still my best range shooter.

I recenty bought a new 686 4" and a S&W500 6.5" Both have beautiful fit and finish and the trigger is perfect, internals are clic clic butter smooth. The 500 needed a new cylinder stop spring, so it had to go back, but now its great. The 686 is tight perfect shooter accurate beautiful, its my daily carry and I trust my life to it.

Everyone that shoots it (only been a couple besides me so far) says WOW, this is why you pay the extra for a smith. So I guess there are lemons and there are ones that are right.

You should have got it made right, you would have loved a nice tight 686.......I do

 

[DonD]

More of the "they don't make them the way they used to" line. Any person with a problem gets a massive forum to complain in. And complain vigorously they certainly do to to a receptive audience.

Canted barrels?? I think that's a cottage industry on this forum, people must take calipers out and microscopically evaluate the alignment of their barrels, even snubbies where some cant will have absolutely no effect on accuracy or suitability at the range these guns would be used at.

Am I justifying poor QA? No, but I really doubt that the QA is anywhere near as poor as the grumping would suggest. S&W is cranking out far more revolvers than in the past, so even if old and new QA standards were identical, more subpar guns would hit the market. Just numbers.

I've had 5, S&W 500 Mags, won't go into why but the reasons had nothing to do with quality. All were really accurate, all had outstanding triggers. I still have two keepers. Of the five only one needed any after sale attention and that was for a minor burr on the firing pin bushing, a trivial issue.

The best trigger pull I've ever felt on any revolver was a showroom display 686 in a big box outdoor store.

And yes, there is life after ILS. Don

 

[Invictus357]

I'm sorry you are having so many problems with your guns.

My first S&W was a 686-5 6"..no problems at all.

My second was a 686-6 2.5"..utter junk. Finish was very poor and shots were all over the place.

The second soured me with S&W so much that I took a hiatus from their products.

I missed them too much and tried again.

My newest Smith is a 686+ 3", built May 2012, is a fabulous gun in all respects.

As I have gushed before, barrel is perfectly straight, fit and finish is wonderful and it's very accurate.

I have owned three Rugers and two had to go back to them to be worked on.

There is not a single gun forum I have frequented where there wasn't anyone saying how ghastly new guns from <insert gunmaker here> are.

This is not to belittle your problems. You have a genuine grievance here.

After lessons learned, starting from my last gun purchase, I go over prospective guns very carefully. The slightest flaw and I will reject them.

 

[dantanna58]

Well I will be the first to admit that one can get a lemon now and then. Years ago I bought a new 6 inch ultimate stainless Colt Python. I paid $1000 for it in the mid 90's. I sent it back 3 different times before it was finally fixed right. This was when you could get a 686 for $350. I am still the proud owner of this gun. I will also say this. The Python is one of the most over rated guns ever made by today's prices for them. Even though I own one. I lit a fire under some folks replying with teenage sarcasm. I also received some very intelligent, experienced and professional advise. But some missed the target by not reading what was stated. 2 brand new in the box,
modern manufactured S&W revolvers were purchased, sent back and were still not repaired correctly. One sent back twice. I learned my lesson from Colt years ago on what was supposed to be the Rolls Royce of Revolvers. Two and a half month's of back and forth.
I have a friend who bought a new Marlin Rifle. And he had been having a nightmare with the company for month's getting the gun right. They finally just bought it back from him. But thanks to you
folks for letting me know that I was not the only one who had these problems with their new S&W revolvers. There were others with the same. At least those guns are some one else's worry now and not mine.

 

[Cruiser RN]

All you have to do is look @ my latest posts here.Had 2 Model 640's Blow up using factory 38 special ammo only.Had to fight S+W to have them replace it with a Model 36.I test fire a gun Born on June 12 2012 and the barrel is canted to the right looking @ it from the muzzle.Off to S+W it goes and it comes back with vise marks from my FFL.It took about 50 rounds and the barrel was so far canted to the right that the ejector rod bearly engage the frame for the Cylinder to close.Back to S+W for Round 2.I had specifically asked they ship the gun to my FFL and not my home address but NO that did not happen.When I got it home I called and the customer service rep said "This time they changed the barrel".With the same failure happening twice it seems like on the first try they NEVER REPLACED THE DEFECTIVE BARREL.Here is hoping that there isn't a round 4.