What if they don't follow your commands?

[Rastoff]

There have been a couple threads recently about stopping a crime in progress or apprehending a criminal. Those of us who carry a gun, do so for protection. We understand that we're not the police.

Here's a completely made up scenario...
While in the check out line at the local convenient store, the guy in front of you threatens the cashier and tells her to give him the money. She hands him some money. You present your gun and tell him, "Stop, drop the weapon and get on the ground!"

To your amazement he doesn't follow your commands and starts to walk out. What now?

 

[gonerydin]

Say goodbye


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[ldausmc1369]

Adios! Have a nice day!

 

[NYlakesider]

There have been a couple threads recently about stopping a crime in progress or apprehending a criminal. Those of us who carry a gun, do so for protection. We understand that we're not the police.

Here's a completely made up scenario...
While in the check out line at the local convenient store, the guy in front of you threatens the cashier and tells her to give him the money. She hands him some money. You present your gun and tell him, "Stop, drop the weapon and get on the ground!"

To your amazement he doesn't follow your commands and starts to walk out. What now?

He walks! Get a good description and holster your weapon so the cops do not over react. Put your hands up and talk with the nice cops when they take control of the situation.

NOTE this is hypothetical as I would not have pulled to begin with, but its what I think is good advice!

 

[BAM-BAM]

I'd just let it all go...........

..... while, if possible; backing away to give myself distance and seeking cover (not just concealment), again if possible......

unless there are shots fired,hostage taking, we are being herded to a 'back room" or an attempted kidnapping......... not going to 'fast draw" against a man holding a gun for a few bucks in the register......

Be a good witness............................

Nothing in a local convenience store worth dying over

 

[Old cop]

I’m a retired cop and would not intervene in a case like this unless the victim was about to be shot. Be a good witness and keep out of it. Remember, you could miss and hit an innocent person, get yourself killed, and even if you drop the suspect you’ll probably be sued. In the final analysis it’s only someone else’s money.

 

[dougb1946]

Pull your gun, threaten the BG, then bleed all over when the BGs friend announces his presence. If the store was that concerned about the money, they would have guards.

I managed a C store, and we were under orders to let the BG have the money. Under current procedures, the BG can only access a few hundred dollars. Not worth a gun fight.

 

[murphydog]

"Here's a completely made up scenario...
While in the check out line at the local convenient store, the guy in front of you threatens the cashier and tells her to give him the money. She hands him some money."

So far, so good (for everyone concerned, except for the store's finances).

"You present your gun..."

Sorry, no imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to anyone apparent, so that would be a full stop. Unless the bad guy had a gun and you didn't tell us.

 

[keith44spl]

A strong arm robbery or armed robbery........

I know what I would do......I've saw me do it.

In the jurisdiction I worked in....Ya don't have to give em a call.


.

 

[Krogen]

We understand that we're not the police.

You answered your own question.

 

[BC38]

Unless the robber is presenting a weapon that poses a grave threat, I wouldn't pull my gun in that scenario.
Unless someone is in immediate danger of death or serious harm here is no justification for doing so.
No sense giving the police a second person to arrest (you). Be a good witness.

 

[BAM-BAM]

A strong arm robbery or armed robbery........

I know what I would do......I've saw me do it.

In the jurisdiction I worked in....Ya don't have to give em a call.


.

Keith44 is a sworn officer......

I assume he's saying he'd effect an arrest if possible ...not sure from the OP if a weapon is shown or inferred by the robber

.. use lethal force?

 

[hoc9sw]

That is a situation that too many think they should intervene in.

Unless you or your family are directly threatened, stand aside and let the guy have the money.

Because I retired from a different state, I have no legal obligation to defend anyone other than me and mine, and will not create a problem bigger than what is already there.

Nor do I have any protection from legal actions than any other private citizen in this state.

 

[Doug M.]

Unless the robber is presenting a weapon that poses a grave threat, I wouldn't pull my gun in that scenario.

*
Probably the best answer. Many of these places are too crowded to run the risk unless you have a pretty good idea that the robber is going to do something worse if not stopped.

If one is an LEO, the offender has no choice - they must submit or be forced by whatever means are reasonable under the circumstances. (Hence Dave Keith's response.) The rest of us have no legal ability to coerce compliance, so unless I can articulate perceptions that will essentially justify shooting the offender with little if any warning*, the winning answer is let them run away.

*Warning: there are a lot of misconceptions on this. Unless your state has some odd legal position (and I have never heard of any like this), there is no need to give any warning in a defense of self or others scenario. The 9th Circuit, based on arguments made by dishonest anti-police plaintiff's lawyers and not properly addressed by the incompetent LE defense Bar, has blended the Garner (fleeing felon Constitutional case) with Graham (general use of force seizure case NOT involving a fleeing felon) and ignored defense of self and others to state that a warning is preferred. That is utter drivel, AND it only applies to LE, not us. State law on use of force is what applies to us, and if you don't have a good idea of what the law is and how to assess the circumstances and then apply tactics, and then articulate it well, put away your guns and study.

I suspect I will more or less unconsciously give some vigorous verbal warning because we trained that way on the range, and frankly, spent a lot more time yelling at offenders as a means of control than actually applying force. That warning will be LOUD, partly because of my voice's nature and adrenaline, and more likely than not blunt to the point of crass due to my east coast potty mouth. If close enough to reach the offender (and I hope not, but circumstances dictate tactics) there is a lot of value to a palm strike to the most sensitive portion of their body I can hit as I draw with the primary hand. It buys time and messes up their performance. Note the technique I mention; unless you have a good background as a boxer, your punching technique is going to be sub-optimal and have a good chance of a hand injury that will degrade your performance.

 

[Chromedhearts]

I’m sure that I’m not the only one that remembers this but back twenty years or so, right up the road from me, some desperate types decided to rob a Shoney’s Restaurant. Armed citizen stayed quite until the bad guys started herding the customers into the kitchen at which time he took on the thugs and took them out. I believe it was a perfect example of how to handle a similar situation. Be a good witness until the situation seems it about to turn worse. One clue about the possibility of a situation about to get worse is if bad guys start getting physical, shoving, slapping, or forcing others into a confined space. Another is if they position people face down.
Most thugs are nervous and want to get away in a hurry. If they start taking time to do other stuff; they show a mentality to do worse


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[Rastoff]

A strong arm robbery or armed robbery........

I know what I would do......I've saw me do it.

In the jurisdiction I worked in....Ya don't have to give em a call.
.

I don't know what any of this means. Please tell us, what would you do? More importantly, what would you recommend the average gun carrying person do?

 

[vytoland]

this is the same old thread that has been presented and discussed several times....with the correct answer always in attendance.....

 

[andy52]

First off I wouldn't have drawn my weapon! I would only do that if appears the perp is going to fire. The perp has what he came for (The money) let him walk or run which ever. Dawning a weapon in that scenario could easily make the situation much worse.

 

[686-380]

If I draw my gun, I'm shooting somebody/something. It will be my last resort.

In the context of your situation, my plan B will be to allow the perpetrator an avenue of escape. This MIGHT prevent a cornered animal response.

 

[brucev]

As a kid I watched a lot of cowboys shows. Still enjoy Roy Rogers. They always handle things the right way. Bad guys always get canned. Good guys always go home to supper.

Never had to deal w/ a robbery when I was in the checkout line. Never carried a gun. However, in 1987 I observed a man stomp a woman at the ATM of the bank where I did business. She was the assistant manage of the local Shoney's restaurant. She was there on restaurant business. I got out of the truck and ran at the man telling him to stop. He reached inside his jacket and said he'd shoot me. I picked up some pieces of brick on the edge of the parking lot. By the time I was at him, he'd got the bag and was running like a rabbit. I stayed on him. Every time he turned around to try to do anything, I'd get ready to give him a brick in the head. Maybe 10-15 feet. Couldn't miss. Ran him all the way through town to the water treatment plant. Police arrived and saw a white man with a couple of bricks holding a African-American man up against the chain-link fence. I'd heard the sirens and figured the police would find us. They advanced w/ guns drawn pointed at the other man. I kept telling them he said he had a gun. Turned out it was a butcher knife. Oh well. Don't think I'd have done things differently if I had been armed. Would have kept the man in sight. Would have made sure the police know who was the criminal, etc. Obviously would have followed the instructions of the officers. Biggest problem following the incident was that many local pastors in the area were critical of the response made. They felt it was not appropriate for a pastor to get involved. I didn't feel that way. If it happened again, I guess I'd do the same thing. Doubt lack of a gun would be any concern. Bricks are very handy. A couple of good pieces throw very good. Hard for a man to dodge a piece of brick thrown from maybe 12-15 feet. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.