What is your take on George Armstrong Custer?

I had a marine vet friend that told me he witnessed macarther had his fancy household furniture loaded on a ship or boat, leaveing guys that could have been hauled out to be prisoners of the japs! He had no time for Macarther!
As I recall, MacArthur was a manic depressive and was prone to Joan Crawford like scenes of "drama".

Supposedly before the war, he was traveling by train and woke his aid to announce that he was depressed and going to shoot himself. I believe that the sleepy aid said something to the effect of "Could you please get it over with sir, so that I can go back to bed?"
 
Custer was a poor student at WP and gained prominence in the Civil War through a brevet command (the idiot above him was killed and they moved another idiot up), and political connections. He was also court-martialed in 1867 for going AWOL. He was fame hungry, often bringing correspondents who wrote favorable print on him, on campaign.
He gave no credit to a people who outnumbered him, were armed basically equal to him (had he brought the Gatling Guns HE WAS ISSUED, he might have won), and who were led by one of the best Guerilla/light cavalry fighters of all time, Crazy Horse.
My Grandfather always said Custer just suffered from "Typical Yankee arrogance and ignorance" (his people were Confederate cavalry). If Custer were alive today I believe rather than Cavalry, he probably would end up on some reality/megalomania TV show. His "Last Stand" is a testament to the fact that you can't ignore all the rules of military engagement, and for that matter common sense, and pull through it just because you have a "swashbuckling adventurer" image. If Patton had attacked a Nazi position with half the ment they had, armed with pistols and left his tanks at base, no one would have lionized him, they would have rightly called him a fool. Custer was a fool, and got a lot of fresh off the boat Micks (AKA My People) killed, all due to his arrogant preoccupation with self.
 
For all his faults and his ego to boot, I think it's safe to say that Custer had more guts and fighting spirit than today's politically correct generals.
 
For all his faults and his ego to boot, I think it's safe to say that Custer had more guts and fighting spirit than today's politically correct generals.
As did a good portion of the Japanese Army during WWII.

How'd that work out for them?

A brave idiot is alas, still an idiot.
 
During the war between the states, Custer fought bravely, led from the front which is what he was supposed to do. During the Indian wars he tried the same thing but some of his officers were not of the best caliber. There was a lot of either you loved or hated him and no in beteen.


During the battle of the Washita he left behind a Major Elliot and about 16 troopers who were later found pretty much slaughtered, this helped the officers who didn't like him because no matter what you don't leave anyone behind.


Custer also hunted down and shot alleged deserters out of hand, yet deserted his column and was courtmartailed for it.


During the battle for the little Bighorn he ignored orders from his superiors, split his column and ignored advise from his scouts. None of this bodes well for his wisdom. He may or may not have been looking to replace Grant as President we will never know for sure.


He led his men into what became a trap because he didn't ant the Indians to get away. This cost him and his men thier lives.


There were a lot of good leaders from the war who became good indian fighters Ranald McKenzie is a prime example but very few have heard of him.

Custer was already famous, and he needed to keep that fame alive, his widow also kept that myth alive for years.

Yesterday I watched Erol Flynn as Custer playing him as a knight.
 
Guys, say what you will about Custer (and Lord knows there's a lot to say), but it's a mistake to look at his actions without considering the context in which he operated.

Until the Battle of the Rosebud, which happened just prior to the Little Bighorn and which Custer didn't know about, the Sioux had always bolted when the Army appeared. The commanders' aim was to fix the "Injuns" in place and then destroy them; naturally, the Sioux weren't having any of it--the warriors would delay the soldiers while the rest of the camp got away, then take off themselves. Campaigns turned into long, frustrating tail-chases for the Army, and they seldom came to grips with the Sioux. Thus, when Custer came upon the huge encampment on the Greasy Grass, he wasn't thinking of survival--he was thinking of keeping the Indians from getting away. Sort of ironic, really.

Also, the Sioux had never before gathered in such huge numbers. Nor would they do so again. Nothing in Custer's experience, nor that of any other Army officer at the time, would have led him to expect to meet literally thousands of warriors in one place.

Custer ran into a set of unprecedented circumstances. His own shortcomings may have hastened his end, but given what was known (and assumed) at the time, it's unlikely that the outcome would have been different had any other officer been in charge.

JMHO, FWIW.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

Excellent post and my opinion also. I would add one caveat. Custer, although his scouts were convinced, did not believe there was an encampment as large as it was. Since a gathering of this size had never taken place before, his thinking was in line with the times.
 
HE WAS A NARCISSIST !!!!! THAT is what got ALL of them into trouble!

HE had NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER. It's really that simple.

It wasn't about "firepower" or "positioning" or "underestimating"........or "misinformation"............................
it was all about "him". Ever met any of those people? "It's all about me"?
If you've ever had to work with one (or serve under one) or been/are married to one, then you'll KNOW what that means. In the mean time you can google NPD and all the criteria that need to be met to be "classified".

I wish I'd know this 15 years ago before I bought and read the 20 to 25 books I have on the subject ! :rolleyes:
 
As I recall, MacArthur was a manic depressive and was prone to Joan Crawford like scenes of "drama".

Supposedly before the war, he was traveling by train and woke his aid to announce that he was depressed and going to shoot himself. I believe that the sleepy aid said something to the effect of "Could you please get it over with sir, so that I can go back to bed?"

While we're drifting onto MacArthur, I lost a little more respect for him after I learned how he handled the Bonus Marchers with such enthusiasm. Granted, orders are orders, but I think he actually saw it as a shot at "glory".
 
had he brought the Gatling Guns HE WAS ISSUED, he might have won

My understanding is that Custer couldn't get the good ammunition for them. The .45-70 cartridges that they were issued had copper cases. The Springfield rifles and the Gatling guns would commonly tear off the rims of the copper cases leaving them stuck in the chambers. A stuck case in the Springfield can be somewhat easily removed. A stuck case in a Gatling gun requires that the gun be disassembled to clear it. Unless Custer could have obtained the new brass cased cartridges that Frankfort Arsenal was starting to manufacture in late 1875, the Gatling guns were just dead weight to drag around.

Also, the Gatling guns just might have slowed him down enough so that he might never have reached the village when he did. So the Gatlings, even with the crap copper cased cartridges, might have saved his life and the lives of his men.
 
I had a marine vet friend that told me he witnessed macarther had his fancy household furniture loaded on a ship or boat, leaveing guys that could have been hauled out to be prisoners of the japs! He had no time for Macarther!

My uncle was there on Corrigador, and he did spend the war as a Japanese prisoner. My uncle was furious with MacArthur that instead of evacuating nurses, he left the nurses there to be taken prisoner, preferring to save his furniture.
 
While we're drifting onto MacArthur, I lost a little more respect for him after I learned how he handled the Bonus Marchers with such enthusiasm. Granted, orders are orders, but I think he actually saw it as a shot at "glory".
From what I understand, MacArthur FAR exceeded his actual orders in destroying the Bonus camp.

I once considered writing a novel in which MacArthur uses the attack on the Bonus camp as a springboard for a military coup. Maybe some day...
 
My understanding is that Custer couldn't get the good ammunition for them.
The British loved the Gatling but realized that it couldn't handle the crappy infantry rifle ammunition of the time, especially their coiled brass cased ammunition. As I recall, they used the .45 Gardner-Gatling round in them rather than their own .577/.455.
 
Many things enter into the equasion. One not mentioned was the use of copper cased 45-70 ammo issued to the troops. After firing a few rounds the copper cased ammo stuck in the chambers of the trap door carbines. Many troopers were found with knives near their hands trying to pry out the stuck cartridges. Later the Army used brass cartridge cased amunition because of their findings after the battle. All the troopers had fired their 45 Colt ammo. 18 rounds each if I remember right.
 
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