What? No leading?

[Skip Sackett]

Well, went to the range today with son #2, son in laws 1 & 2 and took a bunch of cast boolits too. The one son in law asked about the intricacies of shooting lead.

When we got home, I ran a patch down the barrel of my M629 Classic that we had shot 40 or 50 rounds of 434640 boolits though over a full charge of AA#9, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1350fps from the 5" firearm and he was really surprised that there was no leading. He said: "Wow, dad, there isn't any leading!" I said, yeah, now when one of those gun store "experts" tells you that you can't shoot magnum loads with lead bullets without leading, you can tell them that you can and have!

Just to help him understand the whole idea we did the same with the M25 -7. I ran a patch down that barrel and let him look at it and the bore. No solvent was used so if there was something in there, it would have either shown up on the patch or been able to be seen in the barrel.


Nothing!

I went on to tell him that folks would think he was nuts if he told them that he experienced this phenomenon.

But, it sure 'nuff was what happened today!

Oh, that boolit that was driven to 1350fps with that full load of AA#9 was tested at only 13BHN too. Harder is not better.

Just sayin'

 

[cyberiad]

I don't load to high velocities but "no leading" is normal for me using Mid-Atlantic, Dardas and Laser Cast bullets in multiple M67's (38 special), a 627 (38) and a 625. I bought a Lewis Lead remover and have not even opened the box.

 

[oberon]

I have stoked up some decent cast boolit loads form time to time, and the worst problem I had was from some wheelweight home cast wadcutters. The bore was ok and cleaned up good, but the cylinder gap was clogged up to the point where the thing was unfireable. The culprit was the hot load that flame cut the base of the boolit, and deposited the molten residue all over the forcing cone and cylinder face. I was able to clean that up ok, too. After that I went with hardcast commercial boolits usually with a beveled base,and never had another problem. For my .38 wadcutters I use the 148gr. hollowbase at a reasonable (readopgun) loading. I like using the same hole if possible, and the mild wadcutters can almost do it. I still use jacketed boolits for the real screamers.

 

[Dale53]

I have used nothing but home cast lead alloy bullets for well over 100,000 rounds in a variety of calibers from .32 to .45 and thousands of them at magnum velocities without a lead issue.

However, about a year ago I bought a Ruger .45 Colt/.45 ACP Bisley Convertible and it leaded with both cylinders. A check of the cylinder throats found them undersize. I used a "made for the job" reamer kit and reamed my cylinders and those of two friends with 100% success! Now, no problems whatsoever from mild to wild!

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, I have yet to fire my first HBWC from any of my firearms because I just don't load loads that light.

My lead bullets are all homecast and 99.99999999999999999% are wheel weight alloy. I shoot bevel base and plain base bullets too.

I didn't get a chance to shoot the Thompson M21 today, although I wanted to, but it eats plain based cast bullets like candy. It has no leading either.

At any rate, no leading is attainable, as far as my experience goes, from home cast bullets. I have not had that from most commercial cast bullets. Just me though.

 

[SMSgt]

My .45 autos and 9mm Maks have had "minimal" leading at worst. Of course they're not hitting that 1300 fps mark either.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Ruger .45 Colt/.45 ACP Bisley Convertible



Now, no problems whatsoever from mild to wild!

FWIW
Dale53

Dale, I have the convertible too but not in the Bisley grip configuration.

And mild to WILD is really fun in that firearm! 45Colt can do what any 44Mag can, of that I can attest to.

Fun stuff!

Not only that, I have learned from your posts on casting too. Both here and on castboolits.gunloads.com. I want to thank you for that too!

 

[Skip Sackett]

My .45 autos and 9mm Maks have had "minimal" leading at worst. Of course they're not hitting that 1300 fps mark either.

I guess that is the point though. I too have enjoyed no leading from the 45ACP, we have come to expect that, haven't we? And, rightly so.

With the son in law, I know that folks have often told him that attaining those velocities with a lead bullet aren't attainable. And, for those that don't cast, I guess that could be true. Once someone starts to cast, and gets this kind of used to this type of performance, they will begin to wonder why they ever settled for less.

I think shooting that same 44Mag load out of my Marlin 1894 and getting 1800fps from it, is a real feat! I am a happy man!

 

[jimkim]

I shoot my 30-30(loaded to full jacketed velocities) on a regular basis without leading my Marlin microgroove barrel. I wonder what they'd think of that? Come to think of it, since I've been using my LLA/Best Lube blend and fat .3115-.312" bullets I don't even have to clean the barrel. When I do, the only thing on the patch is carbon. Good grief, now I gotta' go shooting tomorrow.

 

[Murphy2000]

The vast majority of the time, I won't waste my time nor breath trying to educate a gun shop commando.

Wish I had a dime for everyone of them I've ran across, I'd buy me a new something or another on Gunbroker.com tonight.

Murphy2000

 

[Paul5388]

I may have to do some rethinking on some of my guns. I normally size to .359", but found my M19-2 won't let a .3575" bullet through the cylinder using pretty firm pressure. Maybe I should engrave the proper size on the cylinders?

 

[rsrocket1]

Are you getting leading in your gun with those .359 boolits?

If not, why change?
With proper lube, slightly oversize boolits will swage right down into and through the barrel. After all, you probably have somewhere around 17,000+ psi of pressure to force it into the barrel, that's 500+ pounds of force.

 

[Paul5388]

I don't know that I've shot too many 17,000 psi loads out of .357s. More like 45,000 cup is the norm. I was reading recently that the swaging process in the throats raises pressure and the bigger the bullet, the more the pressure. That means a .359" bullet in less than .3575" throats may present too much pressure at the peak. Pressure drops as soon as the bullet traverses the barrel to cylinder gap, but that doesn't help the peak pressure.

There's more to consider than just leading problems.

 

[Ron H.]

I have used nothing but home cast lead alloy bullets for well over 100,000 rounds in a variety of calibers from .32 to .45 and thousands of them at magnum velocities without a lead issue.

However, about a year ago I bought a Ruger .45 Colt/.45 ACP Bisley Convertible and it leaded with both cylinders. A check of the cylinder throats found them undersize. I used a "made for the job" reamer kit and reamed my cylinders and those of two friends with 100% success! Now, no problems whatsoever from mild to wild!

FWIW
Dale53

Sir, what would you consider undersize? I ask because my 25-9's chamber mouths will not freely pass a 0.4515" jacketed bullet, and the gun's accuracy is "just OK" with 0.452" cast bullets. I've been considering reaming the chamber mouths, but have been reluctant to either spend the money or take the chance of screwing up the cylinder.

Thanks, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[trulyapostolic]

I don't load to high velocities but "no leading" is normal for me using Mid-Atlantic, Dardas and Laser Cast bullets in multiple M67's (38 special), a 627 (38) and a 625. I bought a Lewis Lead remover and have not even opened the box.

Want to sell it?

 

[rsrocket1]

I'm shooting unsized .4025 to .4035 cast bullets through an M&P40 with a 0.397 slugged bore with no leading whatsoever, but my peak pressure is only about 26ksi.

If you are shooting .357's at 45,000 cup, I won't touch that subject with a 10 foot pole. The SAAMI specs were 46,000 cup until 1995 when they petitioned to lower it to 35,000 psi. Your revolver may be built big enough to withstand 46,000 cup, but regular shooting with those loads will wear it out much faster than with the lower standard loads. I have a mid 80's Ruger Service Six which would also probably handle 46k cup loads, but I have no reason to load to those pressures.

Never mind about the leading questions for your situation.

 

[chief38]

I've got two almost identical Revolvers........... a pre M15 and a M15-2. When I use Wad Cutters the older one has no leading what so ever; not even a smidge. The later one gets leaded pretty badly with the same exact ammo. Both Revolvers are in excellent condition and have been shot thousands of times, so they both have been well broken in. Both are accurate and function well, so there you go............

Chief38

 

[Skip Sackett]

Chief, Firearms are individuals AND that makes my point perfectly. Casting, and it ain't rocket science, at home is the only way to guarantee that you can get a lead bullet to not lead in YOUR firearm. Relying on a commercial caster to get you those results is iffy at best.

Sure, some have gotten great results with commercially cast bullets, and I say "hats off" to all involved, shooter/reloader and the caster too. Maybe someday I will be one, who knows. I just think that every shooter should be a reloader(even a handloader) and a caster as well.

Ron,
Are you buying your bullets or casting yourself? As far as accuracy goes, what you need to figure out next is what size is your barrel. If the throats are .4515" and the barrel is .452" or larger, that would/could be a problem. So, try to slug your bore too. If it were me, I would NOT touch the gun. Find someone that casts softer bullets, if you don't cast yourself, and try them with the same load you are shooting now. That may tell you something. How does that firearm shoot with jacketed or plated bullets?

 

[Paul5388]

If I'm not mistaken, the original .357 Magnums were built to stand 46,000 cup and that standard was used until whenever SAAMI lower it to 35,000 psi. That's one reason the loads in Speer #8 are dramatically different from Speer #13 loads. Compare the specification on this Speer #10 page
http://www.bbhfarm.com/albums/album12/aac.jpg
with the information in Speer #13. I've only been using 45,000 cup since 1972, when I bought my M28-2 new, but I don't shoot thousands of rounds like a lot of people do today.

Ron, Skip left out one detail. You need to actually slug your throats to know what they are running. I think my M625-6 measures .450" or a little less. Slugging the barrel with 5 grooves is a little more difficult, but to my mind, adding .001" to your reading should be pretty close. How tall the arch is that should be across the flat of the lands can be determined mathematically, but that's beyond my abilities. A groove depth of .002" doesn't leave that much to add for the arch and .001" is probably too much. Where are the charts when you need them, since there's a chart for everything on the internet?

 

[Skip Sackett]

For measuring the actual bullets from a 5 groove bore here is what Rule 3 taught me.

I wrap a thin feeler gauge around the bullet and measure that way. Using a micrometer with a ratcheting device on the handle will let you apply a small amount of pressure. You can squeeze it too tight otherwise. Then, all you have to do after measuring is subtract twice the thickness of the feeler gauge.

We just did this with a M629 Classic as a matter of fact. Works pretty well. No need to do that for a throat slugging though!