What on EARTH?!?!?!

[steelslaver]

I am glad I live in a completely different world and have my own key to the range.

 

[cmj8591]

Did they check to see if you were the subject of a domestic order? How about if you were a convicted felon? Did they ask you if you felt like hurting yourself or had used an illegal drug? This is a really good example of what seems to happen a lot in this complicated hobby. You get people who really don't have any understanding of gun laws or what is going on with gun laws who are put in charge of something like this. Then through hubris or their desire to show everyone how virtuous they are by "following the rules" and doing the "right thing", they ruin something that is supposed to be fun. I can say this being in Mass. because I've seen it, attitudes like this is how we end up with draconian laws. Not only I would avoid this range like a leper colony, I would tell anyone who would listen about what they are doing and encourage them to avoid it also.

 

[s&wchad]

Don't be surprised that the range employees don't understand. Even the greatest legal minds in our Country (Supreme Court Justices) can't agree!

While your collapsible stock is clearly not an arm brace, braces are not illegal. They're only considered NFA items when attached to a pistol. One of the workarounds offered by the ATF was to install a longer barrel (over 16", with a minimum OA length of 26") on a braced pistol.

 

[Telecaster]

Yelp and Google have places to leave reviews, if you want other local shooters to be aware of this “issue.” Don’t write a melodramatic tirade, just state the facts. They wanted to inspect your rifle but had no idea what they were looking at.

 

[rwsmith]

You don't think....

Yelp and Google have places to leave reviews, if you want other local shooters to be aware of this “issue.” Don’t write a melodramatic tirade, just state the facts. They wanted to inspect your rifle but had no idea what they were looking at.

These are the bare 'facts'. It is not a tirade or a 'review'. It concerns the state of gun ownership in this country. You don't think this belongs on this forum? I really don't understand that.

 

[acpjim]

Don't be surprised that the range employees don't understand. Even the greatest legal minds in our Country (Supreme Court Justices) can't agree!

While your collapsible stock is clearly not an arm brace, braces are not illegal. They're only considered NFA items when attached to a pistol. One of the workarounds offered by the ATF was to install a longer barrel (over 16", with a minimum OA length of 26") on a braced pistol.

Exactly. Since your barrel was at least 16”, whether there is a “brace” or not is mot relevant to anything. Those guys are idiots.

 

[Telecaster]

These are the bare 'facts'. It is not a tirade or a 'review'. It concerns the state of gun ownership in this country. You don't think this belongs on this forum? I really don't understand that.

Pre-coffee syndrome, sorry. Yes, your post here is fine with me. I mention melodramatic tirades because I see them on reviews online and it draws attention to the complainant instead of to the business, so I mentioned it just as my general advice to people who leave online reviews.

 

[rwsmith]

Update: Another incident. Maybe this explains something.

It seems that the BATF may really be cracking down on gun shops. I don't have a lot of information, but these are the basics.

We got a call this morning from my wife's sister. Her husband and family run pawn shops in the Mims/Titusville area of Florida. One of the pawn shops also sells guns and does gunsmithing. I know they run a 'straight up' outfit. The BATF raided one of their pawn shops and closed it down. It seems that a straw purchase was made at the store, which is illegal in Florida. The person, not an employee, admitted to buying the gun, I would guess for someone who wasn't allowed to buy guns.

My wife's nephew had quit working at the shop 2 weeks ago. The BATF confronted him at his home and questioned him about the straw purchase (he didn't know anything). Scared him pretty bad, though.

Again, this is just a skeleton of the story, but it seems that something is going down. I feel that 'gun control' may now be enforced by closing down gun shops.

 

[rwsmith]

That is what worries me...

................ You get people who really don't have any understanding of gun laws or what is going on with gun laws who are put in charge of something like this. Then through hubris or their desire to show everyone how virtuous they are by "following the rules" and doing the "right thing", they ruin something that is supposed to be fun. I can say this being in Mass. because I've seen it, attitudes like this is how we end up with draconian laws. Not only I would avoid this range like a leper colony, I would tell anyone who would listen about what they are doing and encourage them to avoid it also.

That is EXACTLY what I think may be happening. See my update, Post #28.
.

 

[44wheelman]

Clueless, clearly But I feel like someone rattled their cage.

Either a letter/memo, phone call, or a visit…” we will be visiting, and if any of these devices are found on your premises, you will be shut down, blah, blah, blah…”

I would cut them some slack, sounds like they were “semi” polite about it.

 

[rwsmith]

That's the way I look at it....

Clueless, clearly But I feel like someone rattled their cage.

Either a letter/memo, phone call, or a visit…” we will be visiting, and if any of these devices are found on your premises, you will be shut down, blah, blah, blah…”

I would cut them some slack, sounds like they were “semi” polite about it.

I've been there a lot and I've had my disagreements with them. This was more 'weird' even though I was somewhat offended. I think somebody rattled their cage and that's what REALLY bothered me. It is the big picture of what's going on in this country, not just that they 'offended' me.

 

[cmj8591]

Don't be surprised that the range employees don't understand. Even the greatest legal minds in our Country (Supreme Court Justices) can't agree!

While your collapsible stock is clearly not an arm brace, braces are not illegal. They're only considered NFA items when attached to a pistol. One of the workarounds offered by the ATF was to install a longer barrel (over 16", with a minimum OA length of 26") on a braced pistol.

That is absolutely true and goes to my point. This is someone who doesn't know a pistol brace from a ham sandwich making a decision about if someone is violating the law. You can say that he was trying to minimize the ranges liability but what if you did have a "illegal" pistol brace? Never mind what the liability would be if he let you on the range. What would be the liability if he let you leave with it and didn't notify the ATF? Then you went and used it in a crime. So, is that the ranges policy? Notify the proper authorities when someone show up with something that they think is against the rules? But hey, it's about our "liability" so that makes it ok I guess. I say this because this is an attitude that I run into all of the time in this hobby.

 

[petepeterson]

Since they can't get rid of them, they'll make them harder and harder to sell.

 

[rwsmith]

What a horrible thought....

It just hit me.


"We think your gun is illegal so we are going to confiscate it and contact the BAFT. Expect a visit from them."

 

[johngross]

This could be why some gun shops are spooked.


Biden admin crackdown on legal gun dealers leads to 350% rise in license loss.


Gun dealers are crying foul as the Biden administration pursues an apparent crackdown on legal firearms sellers, whose licenses have been revoked at an unprecedented rate over the last two years.

“This policy is designed to be a backdoor violation of the Second Amendment,” Anthony Navarro, a Greeley, Colorado, dealer who lost his license last year, told the Wall Street Journal.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has taken away the licenses of 122 gun dealers since October — up from just 27 revocations in all of fiscal year 2021, a 350% increase in the first nine months of this fiscal year alone.

Fed gun-shop crackdown leads to 350% rise in license loss

 

[nedlate]

We have 1 shooting range in town. If everyone would boycott them and they closed down we would have..........none.

I might get a little riled up (as usual!) but I would not want to close down the only shooting range in town just to teach them a lesson.

Ed

 

[reddog81]

Exactly. Since your barrel was at least 16”, whether there is a “brace” or not is mot relevant to anything. Those guys are idiots.

Yep, With a 16"+ barrel the even a goofy "pistol" brace would be OK since it is now considered a stock. If reviewing for "illegal" pistols the first step should be to check barrel length.

 

[cmj8591]

The other thing I'll add to this is that I'm not seeing the ATF screw with any dealers around here. In fact, they seem to do just the opposite and go out of their way to help bring the shop into compliance when they have an issue. I think this is more of a case of hyperbole with the administration playing to a certain segment of their support during an election cycle and I wonder how many of those FFL closures would have happened no matter who was in office. The firing range is a different issue than the ATF policing gun shops. Either through ignorance or ego or a combination, they have employees who are completely misguided in how they should be dealing with the shooting public.

 

[cmj8591]

It just hit me.


"We think your gun is illegal so we are going to confiscate it and contact the BAFT. Expect a visit from them."

Legal or not, the guy working at the range has absolutely no authority to confiscate anything from anyone.

 

[rwsmith]

I'm seeing it a little differently.....

The other thing I'll add to this is that I'm not seeing the ATF screw with any dealers around here. In fact, they seem to do just the opposite and go out of their way to help bring the shop into compliance when they have an issue. I think this is more of a case of hyperbole with the administration playing to a certain segment of their support during an election cycle and I wonder how many of those FFL closures would have happened no matter who was in office. The firing range is a different issue than the ATF policing gun shops. Either through ignorance or ego or a combination, they have employees who are completely misguided in how they should be dealing with the shooting public.

Just to clarify, The ATP gunshop has a range. They funnel you through all of the beautiful merchandise on the way in and out of the place. Very good marketing.