What should I offer for this 1917?

[Hondo44]

I should have realized it wasn't a triple lock based on the barrel shroud - my bad. I am new to the older S&W's and the variations of them. I haven't looked at the gun in person yet - just the photos posted here - as it's a couple of hours away from me.

I am interested in a shooter, so will likely pass on this one if the cylinder is not the correct heat treat for 45 ACP.

Yeah, and the cyl frame lug in the lower right corner of the cyl window isn't replaced and fitted for an ACP cyl so the cyl will have considerable play fore and aft when open.

 

[glowe]

Gary,

I'm pretty sure you meant 5801 to 74755 and 1 to 5800.

Hey Jim. Those numbers I posted were from Roy's book. I do know that I did not have my glasses when I pulled the numbers, but they still look like 50XX and not 58XX even with the glasses. Is the bible wrong?

 

[StrawHat]

Kevin, were they lettered or just lacking military stampings? I read somewhere how many civilian guns were made, but cannot put my hands on that number right now.

No, not lettered. They priced me out of that party.

One of them has a military stamp on the flat of the barrel. Ot sure about the second one. I will dig them out and give a look.

I am not sure how many commercial models were made. I would bet someone will be able to supply that number.

Kevin

 

[glowe]

Lamarw stated in post #16 that there were 1200 commerial revolvers made. I am thinking most were high serial numbered late examples.

 

[handejector]

An internet search reveals a "Gun Digest" note by Mr. Corey Graff stating there were 1,200 Commercial Variations produced. He states his information comes from the "Standard Catalog of Firearms".

As usual, books that are not heavily involved in observing S&Ws shouldn't state facts about S&Ws. The actual production of Commercial Mod 1917s is probably more like 3 to 4 times that number, NOT counting the 25,000 1937-38 Brazilian guns which are Commercial Models in every way except for the sideplate stamping.

 

[lamarw]

As usual, books that are not heavily involved in observing S&Ws shouldn't state facts about S&Ws. The actual production of Commercial Mod 1917s is probably more like 3 to 4 times that number, NOT counting the 25,000 1937-38 Brazilian guns which are Commercial Models in every way except for the sideplate stamping.

This is the quote: "According to the "Standard Catalog of Firearms" there were about 163,000 Hand Ejector Models produced for the Army between 1917 - 1919; 5050 Target Model variations: 1,200Commercial Variations; and an additional 25,000 under Brazilian contract."

I can not substantiate the above or disprove it. This is the only number I have ever seen in my research.

Lee, I would certainly appreciate the source of your estimate since I own two of the old revolvers. I would say the Commercial variation is in a different category than the Brazilian contract revolvers. Please help me out. Otherwise, I will continue to use the 1,200 number.

I have not seen any numbers on the Commercial Variation either in the "Standard Catalo of Smith & Wesson" or in the few books I own by Mr. Jinks.

 

[handejector]

That 5050 Target Models is ludicrous. Only a very few original Targets have turned up- less than 6 as far as I know.


Do the math. Serial numbers went well past 210,000 in the 1917 series.

 

[Hondo44]

Hey Jim. Those numbers I posted were from Roy's book. I do know that I did not have my glasses when I pulled the numbers, but they still look like 50XX and not 58XX even with the glasses. Is the bible wrong?

You read the book correctly, but it's getting pretty dated now. Fairly recently Roy made a discovery in the records and updated the #s. He also found that several TLs nearer to the 5800 were shipped commercially, when none were thought to have been earlier.

Gun collecting information is not a lot different than archaeology, constant new discoveries turn up.

 

[Hondo44]

This is the quote: "According to the " there were about 163,000 Hand Ejector Models produced for the Army between 1917 - 1919; 5050 Target Model variations: 1,200Commercial Variations; and an additional 25,000 under Brazilian contract."

Lee, I would certainly appreciate the source of your estimate since I own two of the old revolvers. I would say the Commercial variation is in a different category than the Brazilian contract revolvers. Please help me out. Otherwise, I will continue to use the 1,200 number.

I have not seen any numbers on the Commercial Variation either in the "Standard Catalo of Smith & Wesson" or in the few books I own by Mr. Jinks.

There were reprtedly 991 Post War 1917 Coml Transitional models alone.
according to the SCSW.

Lee just referenced the Brazilians, to specifically exclude them.

The generic books such as the "Standard Catalog of Firearms" you posted are of only very limited information and accuracy. Even the Blue Book of Gun Values.

 

[steelslaver]

I have a commercial model complete with the small S&W logo, lanyard and no Property markings or Brazilian Crest. When I asked Roy Jinks about it he informed "1917 serial 193100 it appears to have shipped in August 1938, but it is open on the records and is on a page where some of the guns were shipped to Brazil. yours does not show any shipment."

Evidently it got plucked from the assembly line, got the small logo and send along its way. So with things like that happening, pinning down the number of commercial models would be difficult.