What to get for my second revolver, 44 magnum or 460 xvr.

[bananaman]

Welcome to the FORUM! I don't concern myself with bears where I live. (are none) Do enjoy shooting .45 Colt though. Have a 25-15, w/6.5" barrel. I hand load, but never did anything very heavy. Just thought I'd mention it. Not sure if it would be an option or not. Bob

 

[bcc629]

I really like the 454 round so I'd love to get a 460V that shoots .460, 454 and 45LC from mild to wild. Only because I can't afford a gun collection. I want something that can suit several purposes.

 

[A.O.]

So I'm not going to give you anymore advice, I think all points have been covered. I've a 357/38, a 44 mag, and a 6 1/2" S$W 500. The 357/38 is a pleasure to shoot, the 44 & 500 a bit stouter, the 500 is really not that punishing and if you reload you can make it what you want.. both my 20 something year old daughters have shot my 500, but they've been shooting since their single digit birthdays. I've a nice leather Cross draw holster for the 500, and a couple hours walking in the woods with it is no big deal.. hint, get suspenders.
So do you have a concealed carry permit? not a whole lot of states have an open carry law... might check into the legalities of carrying what ever you choose where ever it is you might travel. Have fun...

 

[schorkha]

Seriously, a 44 magnum with at least a 4" barrel loaded with Penn Bullets 320 grain SSK's are penetrating Cape Buffalo's 4.5 feet WITH A HANDGUN!
A 44 magnum will kill anything on planet earth with the right load. If it was me, I would trust myself with the 300 or plus grain with a large meplat to make the wound channel large and disruptive. DON"T USE HOLLOWPOINTS unless it is for black bear.
A 44 magnum inside of 100 yards is more devastating than a 30-30 and many of the local Alaskan residents have been using that caliber for decades and still use 30-30's to dispatch brownies and grizzlies. I don't care which handgun you are using as bullet placement is so much more important than terminal ballistics in anything above a .41 magnum and if you are like most of us, you will have far more control and accuracy with a 44 than a .460 or .454 casull.
Bottom line is either one will be more than adequate, but which one do you want to tote around all the time when the odds of a serious like threatening encounter is very very low?

 

[schorkha]

Caliber not as important a placement.

Seriously, a 44 magnum with at least a 4" barrel loaded with Penn Bullets 320 grain SSK's are penetrating Cape Buffalo's 4.5 feet WITH A HANDGUN!
A 44 magnum will kill anything on planet earth with the right load. If if was I would trust myself with the 300 or plus grain with a large meplat to make the wound channel large and disruptive.
A 44 magnum inside of 100 yards is more devastating than a 30-30 and many of the local residents have been for decades and still use 30-30's to dispatch brownies and grizzlies. I don't care which one you are using as bullet placement is so much more important than terminal ballistics and if you are like most of us, you will have far more control and accuracy with a 44 than a .460 or .454 casull.
Bottom line is either one will be more than adequate, but which one do you want to tote around all the time when the odds of a serious like threatening encounter is very very low. Either way, it will be comforting to have an adequate caliber on your shoulder holster.

 

[RodSS]

By aggressive I mean bluff charging. At 55 I've been bluff charged 3 times in my life time by black bears and never by grizzly at similar distance. I studied all the essays by Dr. Tom Smith USGS wildlife biologist back in the day after experiencing my first bluff charge, and the consensus was when the brown bear charges he's not bluffing, when the black bear charges, often times more than not its a bluff charge, hence the brown bear is more dangerous. Yeah your basic modern day Google search will say a Brown bear is more aggressive than a black, but there are just too many variables, population density, etc. Funny thing is after I started carrying a large bore revolver on my outings I was never bluff charged again. Bears are smart too

I lived in Alaska 21 years. Almost every year more people are killed by Black Bears than Grizzlies. Grizzlies are very aggressive but usually will hit and run. A hungry Black Bear will kill and eat you. I was bluff charged by a Grizzly which stopped at 25', then did a half circle around me before letting me slowly back away. I was totally unarmed at the time. A good friend was hiking, saw two Grizzlies, they saw him and came running, he turned just as they got to him, took a swipe which punctured a fuel can in his back pack and stepped on his foot, breaking several bones, then they were gone. I've had an Alaska peninsula Brownie swim past me about 10' away while fishing out in a river, never even looked at me. Woke up one morning to find mom and cub tracks that half circled my tent. In Alaska I normally carried a FA 454. Now that my main concern is mountain lions and black bears, I carry a S&W mod 69.

 

[VictoryOwner]

a one shot kill on any bear with a hand gun is very rare. Not impossible but not likely.

While I realize that this is a forum about guns as opposed to cycling (or perhaps common sense), and will defer to others on the gun question, I have to suspect that you may be expecting too much from guns while maybe not estimating risks accurately.

Not only is it unlikely that you will ever kill a bear with any handgun (just as it is very unlikely that you encounter an aggressive bear that requires you to try to shoot it) I find your assumption that you might be able to stop a charging mountain lion with a handgun far fetched (just as it's unlikely that you encounter one of those). Those critters are fast, and getting a lethal shot off even if one is standing still with an apple on its head isn't easy. Yet you're going to do it while riding a recumbent?

Meanwhile, although fears vary, you might be more practically protected with a small handgun loaded with snake shot, especially if you plan to camp. Not sure, but I suspect that the risks of one of those slithering into your camp site are greater than a charging mountain lion or aggressive bear.

There is also weight to consider. How much weight do you want to add to your cargo in the form of guns and ammo that you almost certainly won't ever need or be able to use effectively if you do need it?

Having been in your situation before, I carried a little old .38 special with the first shot snake shot and the remainder regular self-defense loads, a well as pepper spray. It was hardly a perfect self-defense set up, but was light enough and covered the basic bases. Also, I could actually shoot the .38 special with reasonable accuracy, which is another main feature you look for in a weapon that suits your specific needs.

Of course, I never needed any of it, but then again felt better at least having something in case--and there are two-legged predators to worry about too.

My advice is therefore to stick with the gun you have, especially since you are comfortable with it, and just not plan on having to try to shoot a bear (and in the outside chance you do try, you can find out if it will take a bear out then). If you buy a second, a .22 loaded with snake shot is probably the best choice. Also, get a couple things of pepper spray to attach to your handlebars. Realistically, you're more likely to be chased by dogs, against which pepper spray usually works, than attacked by a wild animal (unless it's a snake).

 

[Taj]

Years ago I was confronted by a big black bear with a radio collar around its neck. All I had was a .357 Mag (158gr HP). I was under gunned but survived. I now carry my S&W 44 mag with Hammerhead 310 gr hard cast lead. In Grizz country I carry my 12 gauge with slugs.
Facing an angry bear six miles in is dicy stuff, carry large, first shot counts, big knife for close in fighting, good luck out there... and never give up. (There is no crying in bear country)

Mehutch, good on Ya Brother and I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Randy Garrett says that a "heavy for caliber" bullet in a .44 mag or .45 Colt @ just under 1000 fps second will shoot through any bear alive. Randy used to own Garrett Cartridges and I believe the mans knows of which he speaks. H'e shot a lot of critters with a variety of big bore rifles and revolvers. He likes hard cast bullets with a big meplat and I can attest from shooting several large hogs with either LBT or Laser Cast bullets of that configuration, that they work very well. I live in and fly the back country of Idaho and always have a Ghost Ring sighted 12 gauge with Brenneke's in my Skywagon. Have seen a lot of bears but never had to deal with them on a personal level. I NEVER go anywhere without my 5" 29 on my side and feel like it will do it's part if I'm up to the task. If a guy doesn't handload you can't go too wrong with either Garrett or Buffalo Bore in any given caliber.

TAJ

 

[DocAnyday]

I own guns in both 44M and 460S&W. I LOVE the 44 - especially for range fun in 44 Special. That said, the ammo options with the 460 are hard to ignore. You can shoot 45LC/454Casull/460S&W - multiple choices for multiple scenarios. Yes the 460 is significantly heavier in weight than the 44M but since looking for carry weapon on ATV a shoulder holster is the route you'll want to go regardless - which will somewhat mitigate the weight differences. I suspect the extra round in a bear attack is more theoretical than practical - if you can't kill it with 5 rounds of 454Cas/460S&W you're not likely to do so with 6 rounds of 44M (or even have the chance/time to try). I suggest you handle BOTH guns - the 44 in 4"/6" and the 460 in 5". See how each feels in the hand. Best case - you might even find a range where you can rent/shoot either or both. Suspect that if you don't enjoy or can't control full charge 44M everything might be harder with the 454 Casull and 460 S&W - your decision will be made for you.

 

[Camster]

Quote:. With a charging bear I may only have time to get one shot from the seat of the trike.

Bear issues usually involve surprising a bear on a trail.That seems unlikely if you're on a trike.It might also constitute firing from a motor vehicle.Firing a 460 from an awkward seated position wouldn't be for me.

 

[Oldfrt]

There may be some confusion on how I plan to carry the guns on the trike. For those interested in what I am riding they are Catrikes, both a Road and 700, my wife rides a Road. The long term plan is that both of us will be armed with guns we can manage from the seat of the trikes. The options for placement of the guns are under or next to the bottom of the seat or between our legs on the boom. The carry weight will be born by the trike and not by our persons.

The other side of this new hobby is that my wife made me get into shooting, so it's her fault if I find that I need more and bigger guns, she should know better.

 

[MARSHALDILLIONDODGECITY]

In bear country you carry a 12 ga. shotgun for protection period..

 

[johnrj]

Riding your recumbent bike?

Are you driving somewhere with a vehicle, then taking out your bikes to ride? If you are riding across state lines and through small towns with a firearm, are you going to have your concealed carry license? You can't merely put a loaded gun in your backpack when you ride through towns without your permit. Some communities will require you to have the gun in its case and the ammunition somewhere else so it is not readily accessible. Not all states allow open carry. If you are riding trails that are populated or in parks such as, Yellowstone, you may have to worry more about being hit by a car than chased by bear. If you are driving to remote wilderness and then going to ride, pepper spray for bear and making sufficient noise will deter most critters. They avoid human contact as much as possible.

With pepper spray or snake shot for rattlers, you have to have it easily accessible to benefit from it. With criminal assailants, if you don't have the pepper spray in your hand when the bad guy comes at you, don't go for it because you will not be fast enough. That can be considered when thinking that you will have to go for a gun or pepper spray with a critter. You need to be comfortable with it enough to get it without looking for it through your gear and without having to figure out where is the safety.

As far as big handguns go, yes, it can be a deterrent and can save your life; if you can grab the gun within the 5 seconds that you may have to get it and aim and shoot. Many people with guns still don't dig them out quickly enough. You have five years to practice. You need to find out the gun laws in each place you are going to ride your bike. Can't just assume you can shove it in your pack out of sight and be ok.

I would not be comfortable shooting a 1000 pound grizzly with a .44 that shoots a 240 grain bullet at 971 foot #'s of energy or a 300 grain at 881 foot pounds of energy. The 1000# bear would likely be moving at 35 miles per hour. Then you still have to accurately hit the bear to stop it. Will that bullet penetrate a grizzly skull? I wouldn't want to be standing there to find out.

Yes the .460 is heavy and loud. Not for the novice. But a 360 grain bullet would hit the bear at 2860 foot pounds of energy compared to 971 of the .44. The .460 would in deed be able to kill the bear. And no, it is not compared to the S&W .500.
They are two different guns and both respond differently. I cannot hold a .500 and can't shoot it comfortably. I am old and 145 pounds wet after losing 20 pounds in the past years; I have broken my hands and have bone disease and arthritis in my joints. The .44 Ruger Redhawk got too much for me. I had 3 .44s and gave up on them all. The .454 Casull is too heavy and cumbersome and I can't get my hands around the grip. The LARGrizzly .45Win Mag. is too heavy to hold and again, I can't grip it.

However, I love shooting my S&W.460. I do wear ears with a mic so I can actually hear game in the forest better than without and it keeps my ears warm. I cannot understand anyone slamming this gun. If it existed 40 years ago, I would have had several and would have given up rifle hunting years ago. As it is, I am planning on getting a second one. Carrying a 5 pound revolver is far easier than carrying a rifle with a scope, rifle rounds and then a backup pistol besides. I have carried this gun up and down Idaho mountains all day. I guess it just depends on what your favorite gun is.

Your riding on a bicycle is going to be burdensome with a lot of hardware that "you might need just in case". Map out your trip and get some idea of where you are going. Will it be tourist season or not? Will guns be allowed in the places you go? Will the guns be accessible if an attack did occur? If you are riding through many states, you might want something smaller and more beneficial for self defense from humans as well as animals. I traveled East and west of the Rockies on foot and was bit by more domestic dogs than anything else. And the owners would swear at me for kicking off their dog that was ripping my clothes. Pepper spray would have helped for that. I spent most of my 60+ years in the woods and the black bear always ran away and the mountain lions run away. I hunt in grizzly country and don't want to assume that they will run away. I carry pepper spray (which doesn't mean you won't sleep in a tree) and my S&W .460xvr; good enough for deer, elk, bear, wolf and assailants.
You should plan for an exciting trip and adventures that you may never experience again. To spend too much time developing a defense against an attack that may never happen may cause you to miss out on the best parts of the trip. You can be vigilant and keep a sharp eye out but, there are a lot of things you can do to make your presence known in the backcountry to avert a threat without burdening yourself with something that may not happen. Real life scenarios rarely follow the script of our best laid plans or dreams.

 

[681NUT]

I'm seeing a lot of posts by those who have Pachmayrs where the manhood should be...Get two big cans of bear spray, put them in your cup holder, wear a whistle around your neck,and get a good chest carry rig holster for your .357 back-up...Just in case you feel like blowing an innocent critter's head off!
They were in them woods long before you.
Stay on the trail, anyhow.

 

[Camster]

Bear in mine(no pun intended) that you enter a National Park with the understanding that a firearm is not for wildlife protection.(As indicated on the Yellowstone website.)You are also prohibited from entering a visitor's center with a firearm,which leaves you in the situation of leaving a gun on your bike.

 

[hangnoose]

NEW TO HANDGUNNING.

IMO (in hindsight) the first should have been a 22 caliber. Five years is a long time to learn. I'd recommend taking some of the $ needed for the 460, buy a reloading set up and do A LOT of practice with cast 38 specials, then decide later (possibly on the 44 mag, or keeping the 357).With skills and a hot 357 180 gr quality bullet, you may be able to get many more shots on target quickly with the 357, time will tell.

 

[Bugkiller99]

But, just because a 44 will do the job doesn't mean I can't get a 460 later, after all my wife forced me to get into shooting so it's all her fault.

Time out! I just thought this was just another bear thread. Then I reread this.

Does your wife have a sister?

 

[Oldfrt]

I was wondering how long it would take someone to notice. Just because a mechanic (which I am) uses one reason to acquire a tool doesn't mean it wont be used for something else. If a location doesn't allow me to have something then it wont be taken on the trip. I plan on getting a conceal carry permit in a few years, then contacting the local authorities to get any information on the threats in the area and their recommended precautions I should take. In the mean time for less than $300 a year I have unlimited indoor range time available with a 10% discount on toys located in their store. IT'S THE WIFE'S FAULT, and no she doesn't have a sister (sorry).

 

[Kid44]

I have an excellent idea, come back here in 4 years and we'll all discuss this again.

 

[Kid44]

Quote:. With a charging bear I may only have time to get one shot from the seat of the trike.

Bear issues usually involve surprising a bear on a trail.That seems unlikely if you're on a trike.It might also constitute firing from a motor vehicle.Firing a 460 from an awkward seated position wouldn't be for me.

If a bear comes at you from behind, griz, or black, good luck getting off the bike, grabbing your gun AND getting off a well placed shot all before your pants are full of s$&@ or you are firmly in the grasp of his, or her jaws.