What types of SHTF scenarios are people basing plans on?

If there is a major EMP attack there is no need to worry. The WalMart underground world control, computer, and command center will still be up and running. They will be able to schedule immediate delivery of any needed supplies (drop shipped from the Peoples Republic if necessary) for any SHTF area.
 
A board sign outside a business I saw recently read: "Remember, when items hit a fan they do not cover universally". I thought that was a good sentiment. Results will be different if it happens.
 
Each Threat will be dealt with accordingly....
Thats my plan.
 
I got 50 gallons of water, 15 gallons of diesel, 15 gallons of gas, 2 weeks food, 21 S&W's w/ ammo, 3 dogs, 2 cats, 1 kid, 1 wife, and my 1977 Ford school bus, AKA "Fully Operational Death Star". Head for the hills.
 
How about "...a shotgun, a rifle and a 4 wheel drive"

In all seriousness, I am in the process of building my fall back location, aka family cabin. Off grid and with minimal neighbors.
 
I knew remember that fool when he was a NY Member Of Assembly representing a District in Brooklyn. He was a jerk then, loved to get on stage and be in any picture taken and nothing has changed except his hairline.
 
I am somewhat dubious about establishing redoubts in remote locations.
When most needed you may find them looted or occupied.


One of my wife's uncles bought a farm in the sixties w/ 120 acres of woods. He built a "get away" cabin w/ a pond. I can't remember how many times it was burglarized and vandalized. It was burned down twice. After the second fire he didn't rebuild.

I have a friend who owns a remote cabin on a lake in Minnesota. Vandals and burglars have forced them to use a local storage company to keep their fishing and cabin equipment. They have even arrived and found "squatters" using their cabin.

There is a lawyer from Indy who built a nice weekend cabin on the local river. After several burgulary/vandalisms, the last one involving all the furniture being thrown over the deck into the river, he decided to sell it.

I have an employee who built himself an honest to goodness log cabin "get away" in the middle of a large wooded tract on his parents farm. After several break-ins he reinforced the door frame, hinges, locks and clad the door w/ 1/8" thick steel. Within the month someone had ripped the door off the front of the cabin.
 
Mtheo, where I'm living now is suburbia to me, yet many New York/New Jersey people have secondary/vacation homes here as their "remote" getaways. There are also numerous hunting leases scattered through the state game lands. These unoccupied houses account for the extremely high burglary rate in Pike County. They're easy pickings.
 
I'll go along with the Katrina or Gustav scenario. We lived it. We're kinda in between Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
 
I'm 4 miles from the nearest crossroads town and 18 miles from the nearest real town and 45 miles from the nearest city. My only concern is getting home if TSHTF. Once here I'm not going anywhere. While we tapped into county water a few years ago we did not cap the well. I have a hand pump that I can drop into the casing if needed. While the house is primarily electric we always try and keep one seasons worth of firewood on hand for the wood stove. We regularly camp and have stoves and lanterns that operate on gasoline, kerosene and/or alcohol, and usually have at least 5 gallons of each fuel on hand.

My plan is to go home and hole up. I can't think of anyplace reachable that is better to be in an emergency.
 
I'd suggest reading the Congressional Report regarding EMP to those interested. The failure rate for modern cars is actually only around 10 percent and many of those can be repaired/restarted. It's interesting reading, though one has to worry more about solar flares (possibly anyway... the data is conflicting) than nefarious EMP bombs.

Rawles seems to get periodically rediscovered. I've disliked him since the Y2K paranoia days. He and a crony were selling dubious police trade in IIA vests for the same as Galls were selling new ones for. Rawles and his buddy accused me of having a financial motive for asking questions about the junk they were selling and kept lying to try to get people to buy their junk. Back in '98 they said armor would be banned, get it now, yada yada... They were doing the same selling dubious milslurp NBC gear.

The "real" SF types and ex military active at the time didn't think much of Rawles. His strange recent advertisement for a wife and the fact that his poorly written economic collapse book was originally called "The Grey Nineties" suggest that his track record isn't great and that he's a bit off. One is farther ahead to just read the Cheaper Than Dirt catalog for the same level of prose.

Anyway, what I do suggest as a resource is to read what FerFal writes about life in Argentina post economic collapse. It's basically a lot like living in Detroit or any other city's ghetto. That's what happens when a society begins to break down. The ghetto life comes to the burbs.

Usually there's a schism between the city folk and the country folk, with the country folk feeling homesteads and retreats are the answer to most things. Maybe they are the answer to some things, but.... Rome and London have been where they are for a very long time and survived. The first thing that happens when a Third World Country gets even worse is also to see an influx of people into the cities from the country, since poverty and problems are usually worse in the countryside. This can also be seen in Zimbabwe where the isolated, but largely self sufficient, White owned farms are just picked off one by one.

Assuming someone is in the United States, the main things to prepare for would likely be:
1. House fires (have a bag in the car with your data on it and toiletries)
2. Natural disasters common to your area - floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes
3. Secondary disruptions caused by a bad example of number 2
4. Bigger Natural/Unnatural disasters - solar flares, massive quake, EMP of natural or manmade origin, faminines, plague, massive financial collapse etc
5. Big stuff - major wars, asteroids, zombies, Reptoid invasion fleet, etc

The good folks at FEMA suggest having food and water for two weeks, though post Katrina quietly admitted that in a major disaster you might be on your own for longer. Originally and for a long time, it was suggested that 72 hours of supplies in something like an earthquake bag would suffice since help would arrive after that. Again, post Katrina that's in doubt.

CMMG sells tactical bacon with a ten year shelf life for those interested. The staff at WWE magazine mentions buying 15 cases to prepare for the end. Shrug. Bacon is might tasty...

I usually suggest Cody Lundin's books as a good place to start, since he notes - correctly - that preparations ought be a source of reassurance and not additional anxiety.

Beyond that, if you start buying stuff, start with stuff you'll actually use like food and toilet paper. If you buy specialized gear, then make sure that you know how to use it and buy the right stuff particularly body armor, night vision gear and emergency medical supplies and learn to use something if you invest in it.
 
Re: Underground propane tanks, made a visit to the local vendor. Unfortunately they had no brochures or such but did glean some info.

Our tank is 1000 gallons. It serves 7 homes in my 'hood and is filled about every 6-8 weeks. Each home is separately metered, of course; lines run from the tank to each home.

They man who does the installs said they usually use tanks from American Tank and have had no problems whatsoever. That is, no problems except for folks who dig without looking. Lines are about 24" underground and thus can be damaged by post hole diggers, trenchers, etc. THEY ARE NOT MAPPED BY MISS UTILITY but he did provide quite detailed maps of our propane lines.

Perhaps this info is useful to Titan and others...

Be safe.
 
Nowhere to go; probably safest at home...depending on where you live of course. Preferably not in New Orleans, Detroit, Chicago, Philly..
Sonny
 
Re: Underground propane tanks, made a visit to the local vendor. Unfortunately they had no brochures or such but did glean some info.

Our tank is 1000 gallons. It serves 7 homes in my 'hood and is filled about every 6-8 weeks. Each home is separately metered, of course; lines run from the tank to each home.

They man who does the installs said they usually use tanks from American Tank and have had no problems whatsoever. That is, no problems except for folks who dig without looking. Lines are about 24" underground and thus can be damaged by post hole diggers, trenchers, etc. THEY ARE NOT MAPPED BY MISS UTILITY but he did provide quite detailed maps of our propane lines.

Perhaps this info is useful to Titan and others...

Be safe.

Thanks for your help.

I found a recall notice on propane tanks made by American Propane. Here it is just as an FYI, assuming your setup is just fine.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08594.html
.
 
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Thanks, Titan. Will surely check that out as ours was installed in the affected period.

Be safe.
 
(snip)....Anyway, what I do suggest as a resource is to read what FerFal writes about life in Argentina post economic collapse. It's basically a lot like living in Detroit or any other city's ghetto. That's what happens when a society begins to break down. The ghetto life comes to the burbs....

Good recommendation, Gatorfarmer. FerFal has a very interesting blog. Studying Argentina's situation may prove quite helpful. Here's a recent article from the Wall Street Journal: (some eery similarities to our current political climate)

Mary O'Grady: Argentina's Kirchner Targets the Press - WSJ.com

Argentina's Kirchner Targets the Press
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY
One way a president can boost poll numbers in a bad economy is to wrest control of the central bank and start printing lots of pesos. There's nothing like cheap financing to restore the market's enthusiasm for buying all sorts of stuff—from stocks to houses—already on sale at fire sale prices.

The great reflation will make people feel rich again. A weak currency will also be a short-term boon to exporters, whose profits can then be taxed at ever higher rates. Complainers can be denounced for their greed.

Of course this perpetual motion machine will eventually conk out and when it does, a government that expects to survive will find it necessary to silence its critics. Just ask Argentines, who are living all of this in real time.

After more than five years of heavy state intervention in the economy, Argentina is again sliding into recession. Double-digit inflation is spiraling north and the government is running out of money. In response, President Cristina Kirchner is cracking down on the free press. Argentines are wondering if their democracy will survive.

The story of how Argentina got here is important to recall. The economy was flat on its back after the 2001-2002 collapse of "convertibility," the monetary arrangement that pegged the peso to the dollar. A demoralized nation was looking for a savior.

It thought it found one in Néstor Kirchner. He became president in 2003 and set about to restore the state-run economic model of Juan Peron; the market, he maintained, had failed. Mr. Kirchner took control of the central bank. He demonized the private-sector and investors. Using price controls, subsidies and regulation he made himself a Robin Hood to the masses. The legislature granted him extraordinary powers.

The economy bounced back as one would expect after a harsh contraction, and in 2007 his wife was elected president with 45% of the vote.

Now the illusionists are losing their touch. Not only is the economy going sour, but according to polls, the nation is growing intolerant of what many consider to be the first couple's abuse of power.

Four examples serve to make the point: First, when Mrs. Kirchner attacked the farm sector last year because it resisted her plan to impose high export taxes on its harvests, the nation rallied to the defense of the farmers, much to her surprise. Second, her decision to confiscate privately held pension accounts was loudly denounced as a violation of the rule of law. Third, there is a widespread belief that her government is using the state intelligence service to collect information against the president's "enemies." Fourth, an overwhelming majority of Argentines resent the privileges and jet-set lifestyle of the first family while national living standards plummet.

This popular dissatisfaction showed up at the polls in the June midterm elections, when Mrs. Kirchner's wing of the Peronist party lost badly. Even Mr. Kirchner did not manage to prevail in his bid for a house seat representing the province of Buenos Aires, which should have been a stronghold for the first couple.

Mrs. Kirchner and her husband have decided that they lost because of bad press coverage. They are especially upset with the Clarin media company, which though once a supporter, is now an outspoken critic. In public comments Mr. Kirchner often implies that the government is analyzing the company to see if it might not need to be downsized. In September, tax authorities launched a raid on the Buenos Aires offices of its daily newspaper. Tax authorities later issued an apology for the raid, but the paper maintains that it was an act of intimidation.

Yet the problem of bad press for the Kirchners is much bigger than Clarin. As the antimarket economic model hits the skids, the nation is turning against its architects and a free press will not remain silent. This is why the president forced a media law through the legislature two weeks ago, creating a new "audio-visual" regulatory board controlled by the executive.

The law also grants the executive control over all licensing of the radio spectrum and reserves at least two-thirds of it for state-owned and nongovernmental broadcasters approved by the executive. There is concern that Mrs. Kirchner is now preparing to take over the most important domestic supplier of newsprint and to begin using import licensing to control access to foreign supplies.

Hugo Chávez has become a dictator in Venezuela under the guise of democracy, and he has similarly shut down the free press. Argentines are worried.

Last week in the Argentine daily La Nación, philosopher and writer Santiago Kovadloff summed up opposition sentiment about the government's use of "the law" to consolidate power: "The law has become a beloved tool of corruption," Mr. Kovadloff wrote. "The executive has put it at its service. It manipulates it with skill." And where does that leave society? "Insecurity is no longer a threat. We are in the jungle."

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