CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Why in the wide world of sports would one settle on a 9x21.5??????? Why not 9x21 or 9x22
I'll not own a PC gun of any kind as I have never been, nor will I ever be a PC person. I'm more of an Ah kind of guy.
What was the purpose of Close Quarter Battle Pistols?
- Thread starter Alex Inman
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Why in the wide world of sports would one settle on a 9x21.5??????? Why not 9x21 or 9x22
I'll not own a PC gun of any kind as I have never been, nor will I ever be a PC person. I'm more of an Ah kind of guy.
All this talk about the 4563 CQB these last few weeks made one come out of the safe, (again.) This time it's not siamese'd with another rare PC pistol and offered by itself.
Check out spistols CQB here in the WTS section.
Jim
Check out spistols CQB here in the WTS section.
Jim
03Fatboy
Member
Not sure the photo will show well since I'm uploading from my phone and the forum seems to struggle with it.
vigil617
US Veteran
There was already a 9 x 21, and S&W and Federal were coming up with a niche cartridge that would meet requirements of the competitions it would be involved in. I guess the extra .5 was the best solution.
And as for the rest of your post, Caj, I can only respond: "Yeah, but you're our AH kind of guy."
vigil617
US Veteran
Indeed, Jim, and yours is the one that cherrypointmarine was referring to. Also, my pointing out to him a 4563 CQB at a good price that I could tell him about was certainly no disparagement of your As New In Box gun with all that came with it. The one I've seen is supposedly unfired, but it has no case, extra mags, and so forth -- and is not the collector-quality gun that yours is, so the price reflects those omissions.
vigil617
US Veteran
Thanks for the photo, 03Fatboy. I guarantee you, though, that he knows what one looks like already....
I simply see it as a marketing term, like tactical, derived from the military to sell guns and gear to keyboard warriors. It means absolutely nothing meaningful, just sounds cool.
Cal44
Member
Isn't an operator the person who handles telephone calls?
I wonder why anyone want's that obsolete job.
Attraction to Lily Tomlin? Futile, I might add.
I just gotta post this link.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFRc6nt4hbQ[/ame]
Gives them a reason to grow a beard, wear 511 pants and desert tan combat boots.
suckersrus
Member
I have a 640 PC that I call my "close quarters battle" revolver.
Because, with it, it is impossible to hit a human-sized target anywhere past arm's length.
Because, with it, it is impossible to hit a human-sized target anywhere past arm's length.
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Standard vs better
I understand even the standard 3rd Gen 45ACPs shoot well and basically are just plain special. The CQB versions, as posted above, were Performance Center designed and manufactured, and to arguably better performance. There should be plenty of pics here in this forum; if I remember there was more than one finish on the CQBs.
Did some have alloy frames? If so, that usually makes them easier to carry.
And, sometimes S&W makes a gun just because they can.
As far as the name, heh. Have you ever heard of the snubby Terminator? A different company...
Just my opinion and worth what it cost.
I understand even the standard 3rd Gen 45ACPs shoot well and basically are just plain special. The CQB versions, as posted above, were Performance Center designed and manufactured, and to arguably better performance. There should be plenty of pics here in this forum; if I remember there was more than one finish on the CQBs.
Did some have alloy frames? If so, that usually makes them easier to carry.
And, sometimes S&W makes a gun just because they can.
As far as the name, heh. Have you ever heard of the snubby Terminator? A different company...
Just my opinion and worth what it cost.
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Jeff Cooper once remarked that handguns were never intended to be offensive weapons - they should always be considered defensive in nature.
The word "battle" implies that certain pistols are capable of offensive use - for example, clearing a room of bad guys quickly and decisively. To my mind, short-barreled assault rifles or submachine guns would be ideal tools for tasks like that.
But we are picking nits here. My only knowledge of U.S. forces specifying a particular handgun for offensive use was when Special Operations Command put out a call for an "offensive handgun" and gave various manufacturers the specs for what they thought would be ideal.
The winner of the competition was the Heckler and Koch Mk 23 Mod 0 SOCOM pistol. So officially, the only "close quarters battle" pistol can only be rightfully claimed by H & K. The pistol is impressive - same weight as a 1911, but with increased magazine capacity and capable of firing .45 Super rounds as issued. It's also suppressor ready. The Navy SEALS have them in inventory. This is the nearly identical civilian pistol, the Mark 23.
I still agree with Cooper - there are better tools for offensive use than handguns.
John
The word "battle" implies that certain pistols are capable of offensive use - for example, clearing a room of bad guys quickly and decisively. To my mind, short-barreled assault rifles or submachine guns would be ideal tools for tasks like that.
But we are picking nits here. My only knowledge of U.S. forces specifying a particular handgun for offensive use was when Special Operations Command put out a call for an "offensive handgun" and gave various manufacturers the specs for what they thought would be ideal.
The winner of the competition was the Heckler and Koch Mk 23 Mod 0 SOCOM pistol. So officially, the only "close quarters battle" pistol can only be rightfully claimed by H & K. The pistol is impressive - same weight as a 1911, but with increased magazine capacity and capable of firing .45 Super rounds as issued. It's also suppressor ready. The Navy SEALS have them in inventory. This is the nearly identical civilian pistol, the Mark 23.
I still agree with Cooper - there are better tools for offensive use than handguns.
John
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I think it was because They need the room to make 'Major" in IPSC with a 147 grain bullet. After that NFI.
HardToHandle
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Royal Robbins rocked as did the early 5.11 pants. Then they went Bangladeshi cheap.
My opinion was CQB was heavy on marketing with a dash of incremental improvement.
As for the opinion on no role for a offensive handgun in battle? The last 18 years of war seem to strongly dispute that.
Last I knew, US Army 11C mortarmen were issued an M9 as a personal weapon.
Bradley Kasal didn't emerge from some Iraqi urban renewal with the musket length M16A2, he was thoroughly offensive with a pistol - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/more-iraq-veterans-deserve-the-medal-of-honor/2018/03/23/c29e6e0c-2dd5-11e8-b0b0-f706877db618_story.html
The other place for pistols are trains, planes, buses and ships. Climbing, clambering, pushing non-combatants out of the line of Fire is easier with a freehand.My personal experience is mostly confined to school/active shooter response. Opening doors, room clearing and other associated tasks is generally easier with a handgun.
This picture caught me as a great example - assaulting a plane. Pistols seem to rule. Andrews EST brings organized chaos to the force Geisselle even builds a Glock only scope mount called the Six Second Mount - ALG 6-Second Mount - T1
I was seated next to a young lady who did security as a USAF Raven a few years ago. They provide inflight and on the ground security for VIP aircraft and certain unmentionable missions. Needless, the Ravens get some really interesting flights to interesting places. The young lady was demur on lots of details, but she had seen a lot of AfriCom and CentCom. That would be very offensive in the defensive realm.
My opinion was CQB was heavy on marketing with a dash of incremental improvement.
As for the opinion on no role for a offensive handgun in battle? The last 18 years of war seem to strongly dispute that.
Last I knew, US Army 11C mortarmen were issued an M9 as a personal weapon.
Bradley Kasal didn't emerge from some Iraqi urban renewal with the musket length M16A2, he was thoroughly offensive with a pistol - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/more-iraq-veterans-deserve-the-medal-of-honor/2018/03/23/c29e6e0c-2dd5-11e8-b0b0-f706877db618_story.html
The other place for pistols are trains, planes, buses and ships. Climbing, clambering, pushing non-combatants out of the line of Fire is easier with a freehand.My personal experience is mostly confined to school/active shooter response. Opening doors, room clearing and other associated tasks is generally easier with a handgun.
This picture caught me as a great example - assaulting a plane. Pistols seem to rule. Andrews EST brings organized chaos to the force Geisselle even builds a Glock only scope mount called the Six Second Mount - ALG 6-Second Mount - T1
I was seated next to a young lady who did security as a USAF Raven a few years ago. They provide inflight and on the ground security for VIP aircraft and certain unmentionable missions. Needless, the Ravens get some really interesting flights to interesting places. The young lady was demur on lots of details, but she had seen a lot of AfriCom and CentCom. That would be very offensive in the defensive realm.
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